I pit undecided voters (like myself)

[suranyi]

@Hentor_the_Barbarian

This is the crux of why I think undecided voters must be fucking idiots/completely ignorant of anything having to do with politics.

There’s just simply no meaningful issue that I can think of that one cannot make a strong prediction about which way a particular candidate will go. Even if you’re not sure which priorities a candidate will choose, you ought to be able to identify which positions are important to you and which way either candidate (or more importantly either party) would go on that issue.

If there’s an issue that such is not clear, it’s got to be an exceedingly trivial issue, such that you’re an idiot for making it the focal point of your voting decision.

And if you’re not clear which candidate would be better for the economy, you’ve simply fallen for a sales line, and are thus dismissably ignorant. One party’s entire economic mentality is based on an economic philosophy written on the back of a napkin that has led to nothing but poor outcomes in reality, whereas the other has reliably generated desirable outcomes.

And what would a candidate “depleting his capital” have to do with your voting decisions? Using that as a decision making factor sounds like you’re a member of the punditry and are looking for who would make the best narrative, not who would be more likely to pursue an overall agenda in accord with your beliefs.

By the way, I agree that just because someone is decided doesn’t mean that they are intelligent and informed - far from it.

You don’t understand the degree to which some people don’t pay attention to the news at all.

[woodstockbirdybird]

@Chessic_Sense

You say it like it’s not true.

It’s obviously not - I assume from your posts that you’re not poor, and yet you’re clearly full-on retarded.

[Hentor_the_Barbarian]

@suranyi

You don’t understand the degree to which some people don’t pay attention to the news at all.

Didn’t I recognize that in the first line of my post?

Ignorant voters are different than undecided voters. They’re apathetic and presumably make no pretense about it. That’s fine. As has been said, democracy is not for everyone, and America is advanced citizenship. You’ve got to want it.

But when the ignorant pretend to be thoughtful yet undecided, they move into a more noxious category, imho.

[Measure_for_Measure]

@A_Nested_Thorn

Enderw24, I was raised uber-religious and uber-conservative, went to college and came out moderately liberal. Now I’m just a cynic. I’m leaning toward Obama, but I still have trouble with the whole personal responsibility side of the equation. I mean, at what point do we all have to begin taking responsibility for our own success (not referring to those who truly need social assistance, obviously)? What if we’re descending into a pattern of self-pity as a nation? What if policies reflect that?

Look, I read quite a bit about this stuff, from all angles (aside from Fox News; I mean, come on, it’s practically satirical at this point), but I’m not educated in economics beyond the basic courses I took in college and what I’ve been able to learn on my own from books. This is all very, very complicated, and any given policy could fail if the the world ecomomy doesn’t act in the expected way. I just resent the notion that it’s all cut and dry and obvious. It’s not.

Also, it’s not all sarcasm; I really do resent myself for not knowing by now.

Ok. Let’s forget about the current election for the moment.

Europe has a far more generous safety net than the US does. So does the remainder of the industrialized world, at least until health care reform kicks in. After that, Europe will still have a far more generous safety net. It’s been that way since at least, oh 1955.

European growth has been fine: the continent hasn’t experienced economic collapse. The US could greatly expand its welfare system without your worst fears being realized. Now you may have a preference for a somewhat less generous set of policies than the US has – or not. (I’m assuming you don’t have a deep knowledge of this subject – you wouldn’t get it even if you were an avid newspaper reader after all.) But I hope I’ve demonstrated that the idea that the US is going the way of Rome because it provides too much bread and circuses is wholly unfounded. Because if that were the case Sweden’s standard of living would be dismal and it really isn’t. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/sw.html
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html?countryName=Sweden&countryCode=sw&regionCode=eur&rank=21#sw

[gamerunknown]

@Machine Elf

the certitude and hostility exhibited by huge swaths of both parties is rather nauseating.

Both sides are bad, so vote Republican!

@A_Nested_Thorn

The rational Republican party–may they rest in peace–simply believed that helping each other up shouldn’t be mandated by government in all cases, that given more freedom from government and taxes citizens would reach out to their fellow man and lift them up voluntarily. Maybe that’s a crazy philosophy, but I truly know people who demonstrate it daily, and who are concerned about the fiscal possibilities under continued Democratic leadership.

There’s a website that’ll help you demonstrate your points: Vote Smart. Could you find an instance of legislation where Democrats voted irresponsibly and Republicans didn’t? Here’s a brief bill breakdown for instance.

Also, some simply lie about their support for certain institutions. Ron Paul for instance declares himself to be the “best protector of Social Security”, but he also claims the program is unconstitutional and should be phased out.

Roosevelt was pretty good on that point (another poster linked it in another thread I think).

[Molesworth_2]

This is the Pit, so I can speak freely, right?

I’m an Aussie.

Fuck any American who’s even considering voting Republican. I remember back in 2004 that chickenhawk cunt Cheney said of the prospect of a Kerry Presidency “The danger is that we might get hit again.”

Quite frankly, if you American pricks vote the warmongering assholes of the GOP back into office again I hope you do get hit again, and I hope it fucking hurts.

I’m proud that my country has fought alongside yours in every war since WWII. I’ve lived in your country and I admire it. But your GOP is a shitstain on humanity, and if you vote them into power again so soon after the debacle of the Bush years I will be laughing when your inevitable war with Iran inevitably goes badly for you.

We get the Newshour from PBS here. I go silent when they show the faces of American soldiers who’ve died at the end of each broadcast. I currently feel that I should give your fallen soldiers that respect.

But if you vote in that idiot Romney I will be giving them the finger instead.

Fuck the Republican party, and fuck anyone who is thinking of voting for them.

Like I said, it’s the Pit, so I’m being totally honest with you.