# I pit unsafe nuclear energy **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 14, 2011, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-unsafe-nuclear-energy/606185 "2011-12-14T16:35:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-unsafe-nuclear-energy/606185/1 "2011-12-14T16:35:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Since the beginning of the 1990s, **Western governments have spent billions of dollars on extensive programs to upgrade the safety of Russian nuclear reactors so that they could operate safely until their life spans expired**. Unfortunately, these programs have breathed new life into first-generation reactors, giving most of them 15 additional years to operate. > > The legality of extending nuclear power plants’ engineered life spans has been the subject of heated discussions and even court cases. **The key question is whether life extensions can be done without environmental assessments.** > > Russian general safety regulations state that an organization operating a nuclear power plant may extend a reactor’s engineered life span by obtaining a new license from Rostekhnadzor, the federal nuclear oversight agency. The procedure and conditions for licensing are set out in regulations, which state, among other things, that a nuclear power plant operator must present the conclusions of a state environmental expert assessment, along with other documents. > > Under federal law, citizens and their organizations have the right to information about the results of these assessments. In addition, members of the general public can commission their own environmental expert assessments using any information that is not classified as a state, commercial, or other type of secret. > \*\* > None of the reactors that have received life-extending licenses have undergone any environmental expert assessment\*\*. In our view, that makes them illegal. In the case of the Kola nuclear power plant, the regional prosecutor’s office for the Murmansk region agreed, but the general prosecutor’s office overturned the decision, stating that federal law does not require environmental assessments for existing facilities. > > **Russia launched its life-extension program to compensate for the lack of new capacity** and to retain nuclear power as an important energy source, as well as to maintain expertise in this field. But **prolonging the lives of aging reactors increases risk** , because the reliability of systems and mechanisms cannot be guaranteed at the same level as for new equipment. Moreover, **older Russian reactors have inherent design flaws** , which are not financially feasible to eliminate during life-extension work. It seems that **Rosatom does not have the funds to decommission older nuclear power plants and replace them with new ones**. But is that any reason for Russia to approve questionable compromises on safety? [http://www.thebulletin.org/web-edition/op-eds/second-life-the-questionable-safety-of-life-extensions-russian-nuclear-power-plan](http://www.thebulletin.org/web-edition/op-eds/second-life-the-questionable-safety-of-life-extensions-russian-nuclear-power-plan) (much more at link) What the fuck? Seriously? Chernobyl style reactors, with so much spent fuel next to them they are running out of room? And they just want to keep them going? Chernobyl was fucking bad, but at least it was a brand new reactor, one load of fuel, no spent fuel to burn, yadda yadda yadda. It only caused millions of early deaths from cancer, nothing to worry too much about. But now they are keeping the old reactors going, which is just wrong. It’s wrong on so many levels. I can just see it already, the blind true nuclear believer will somehow spin this so it’s just fucking OK with them, or it will somehow be “their” fault, the people who oppose nuclear, tis is their fault. Something. In no way will it ever be just wrong. And dangerous. Because belief trumps reason and logic.These reactors are of an inherently unsafe design, which cannot be improved through upgrades and modernization, and some reactor parts are impossible to replace. > [@](#): > > Extending a reactor’s life beyond its engineered life span is inherently dangerous in Russia for two main reasons: some parts of the reactors are irreplaceable, and the issue of what to do with spent nuclear fuel and highly radioactive waste has not been resolved. No fucking shit. The same thing is true for most of the old reactors in other countries as well. It’s an actual real danger, unlike the mythical runaway global warming bullshit. > [@](#): > > Today, many countries that were in the [Soviet Union](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union) have been paid money from the [European Union](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union) to shut down such first-generation units, as they pose a threat to the environment. > **[Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_Nuclear_Power_Plant#Accidents)** > > The Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant\[a\] (ChNPP) is a nuclear power plant undergoing decommissioning. ChNPP is located near the abandoned city of Pripyat in northern Ukraine, 16.5 kilometres (10 mi) northwest of the city of Chernobyl, 16 kilometres (10 mi) from the Belarus–Ukraine border, and about 100 kilometres (62 mi) north of Kyiv. The plant was cooled by an engineered pond, fed by the Pripyat River about 5 kilometres (3 mi) northwest from its juncture with the Dnieper River. > Originally named ... Really? Yet we see a bunch of first generation (the really unsafe kind) reactors (like the Chernobyl style RBMK-1000) being “extended” with no study to show they are in any way safe. And now of course some of them have 40 years or more of stored fuel right there at the plants. Multiple old unsafe reactors, with hundreds of spent reactor cores worth of fuel sitting right next to them. Talk about a huge fucking disaster waiting to happen. Fuck you nuclear assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-unsafe-nuclear-energy/606185/2 "2011-12-14T16:37:28Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > I pit unsafe nuclear energy Good God, do you really? I always thought you were a bit wishy-washy about it. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-unsafe-nuclear-energy/606185/3 "2011-12-14T16:38:49Z")
Clearly you did not read before you responded. But that is OK, most idiots don’t. They don’t need pesky facts. Your truthiness is all you need to know what is right. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-unsafe-nuclear-energy/606185/4 "2011-12-14T16:41:26Z")
Oh fuck, not again… ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-unsafe-nuclear-energy/606185/5 "2011-12-14T16:43:54Z")
Yeah, asshats have already started threadshitting. Can’t blame them. How you gonna defend Russia and it’s dangerous reactors? You can’t very well say those old Chernobyl style reactors (including the actual Chernobyl reactors) are safe. Or that they should be run until they meltdown. Or that the 40 years of spent fuel is no danger. Or that new reactors will replace them. It’s a serious problem. Hell, maybe I should go to great debates with it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-unsafe-nuclear-energy/606185/6 "2011-12-14T16:45:47Z")
I read the whole thing. The title is still stupid. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-unsafe-nuclear-energy/606185/7 "2011-12-14T16:54:55Z")
Here we go again! :smack: Wonder what page count this one will get up to…and whether it will be 80% or 90% posts by our good buddy FXM. Ok, so reading the article, it’s about Russia’s decision to extend the life of their (older) nuclear power plants (10 of them comprising 32 reactors in total). Reading between the lines, the reason they want to do this is that their alternatives are limited. They are behind on construction of new power plants (many of them newer nuclear designs), and these things currently comprise over 16% of Russia’s electrical energy production. Taking them offline would put a gaping hole in their energy production. So, while I agree that keeping these old power plants going is an issue (yeah, they are ‘Chernobyl style reactors’, but they HAVE been upgraded with more modern safety equipment…and hopefully no one will be stupid enough to try a test where they shut off all the safety equipment that IS there and then take a reactor critical to see what will happen), what are the alternatives? Russia’s OTHER power generation industries aren’t exactly environmentally friendly either. Anyway, while it’s a concern and actually IS a valid bitch, the OP has so jumped the shark on this issue that there is no point seriously discussing this OR even bitching about it, Pit style. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-unsafe-nuclear-energy/606185/8 "2011-12-14T16:57:27Z")
Yay. Another personal blog for FXMastermind as our official resident “nucular is teh bad” blogger on the SDMB. Joy. And you’re already accusing people of threadshitting a Pit thread? Weak, man. Weak. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-unsafe-nuclear-energy/606185/9 "2011-12-14T17:03:00Z")
I live near safe nuclear reactors, and they don’t bother me at all. Safe nuclear energy is actually my source of electricity. I would be pissed if anyone shut it down for no good reason. Only an insane person would support unsafe situations concerning nuclear power. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-unsafe-nuclear-energy/606185/10 "2011-12-14T17:05:37Z")
Dear FX, do you remember _all_ the nuclear reactor disasters of the past? You know, like, all three? One caused no damage, one was due to massive administrative stupidity (where we can honestly say “we know better now”), and the other was due to _a combination of a tsunami and an earthquake_ (and still killed/injured less people than the rest of the disaster). ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-unsafe-nuclear-energy/606185/11 "2011-12-14T17:11:21Z")
Nonsense. Chernobyl had a partial meltdown of a different reactor before the big explosion in #4. That you, and most people, don’t know this, shows how ignorance is rampant when it comes to unsafe nuclear power. (the godless commies hid the accident, of course). The other huge unsafe use of nuclear power was, of course, all the atmospheric testing, which spread nuclear waste over every bit of the planet before the wise voice of science convinced the insane to stop doing it. Radio-cesium is fucking everywhere, mostly due to atmospheric testing. That released far more radiation than even the recent Japanese disaster, which I refuse to mention in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![elninost0rm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ed655f/32.png) [@elninost0rm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elninost0rm)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-unsafe-nuclear-energy/606185/12 "2011-12-14T17:30:23Z")
I suspect you do not sleep well at night. T/F? ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-unsafe-nuclear-energy/606185/13 "2011-12-14T17:37:10Z")
Jesus Fuck, why are you still here?! Everyone hates you, your threads are stupid, and I suspect your penis is quite small. Do us a favor and go clutter up some other board with your stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-unsafe-nuclear-energy/606185/14 "2011-12-14T17:42:11Z")
I shit on your thread. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-unsafe-nuclear-energy/606185/15 "2011-12-14T17:46:52Z")
> [@](#): > > After Japan’s \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* disaster in March, France decided to carry out safety tests on all of its nuclear reactors, [reports Reuters](http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/17/us-france-nuclear-tests-idUSTRE7AG0HQ20111117). That means it checked 58 that are in use, plus a next-generation reactor under construction in north-western France. > > After what happened in Japan, France wanted to know if its infrastructure could stand up to flooding, earthquakes, power outages, failure of the cooling systems and operational management of accidents. > > Turns out, none of the plants come up to scratch. Jacques Repussard, head of [ISRN](http://www.irsn.fr/FR/Pages/Home.aspx), the institute that carried out the tests, [told Reuters](http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/17/us-france-nuclear-tests-idUSTRE7AG0HQ20111117): “There is a need to add a layer to protect safety mechanisms in reactors that are vital for the protection of the reactor such as cooling functions and electric powering.”… “All reactors have to survive much more violent events than what they were built to resist.” > Slightly odd French-English translation aside, that’s bad news. [http://gizmodo.com/5860764/are-all-of-frances-nuclear-power-plants-unsafe](http://gizmodo.com/5860764/are-all-of-frances-nuclear-power-plants-unsafe) Really? Might be a good idea to test EVERY FUCKING one of the worlds reactors then. Because while I love safe nuclear energy, unsafe reactors make the baby Cecil cry. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-unsafe-nuclear-energy/606185/16 "2011-12-14T17:49:28Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Jesus Fuck, why are you still here?! Everyone hates you, your threads are stupid, and I suspect your penis is quite small. Do us a favor and go clutter up some other board with your stupidity. Notice also how FX is now claiming that “safe nuclear plants” do not worry him and seems to be ok with it. :dubious: Problem is that when you remember what he was doing in the other thread, it is clear that he is reaching now for the fallacy of shifting sand, or “we have always been at war with Eurasia” an Orwellian “total willingness to rewrite the past” point that is stupid once one looks at his recent past behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-unsafe-nuclear-energy/606185/17 "2011-12-14T17:51:53Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > [http://gizmodo.com/5860764/are-all-of-frances-nuclear-power-plants-unsafe](http://gizmodo.com/5860764/are-all-of-frances-nuclear-power-plants-unsafe) > > Really? Might be a good idea to test EVERY FUCKING one of the worlds reactors then. Because while I love safe nuclear energy, unsafe reactors make the baby Cecil cry. Here’s a membership list of the World Association of Nuclear Operators: > [@](#): > > Atlanta Centre > Category 1 > Atomic Energy of Canada Limited > Bruce Power > Centrala Nuclearelectrica > China Power Investment Corp > Comision Federal de Electricidad > Emirates Nuclear Energy Corporation (\*also affiliated with Toyko Centre) > Eskom > Hydro-Quebec > Institute of Nuclear Power Operations > New Brunswick Power > Ontario Power Generation > State Nuclear Power Technology Corporation (SNPTC) > > Category 2 > Ameren UE > American Electric Power Company > Constellation Energy Group, Inc. > Dominon > DTE Energy Company > Duke Energy Corporation > Energy Northwest > Entergy Nuclear > Exelon Corporation > FirstEnergy Corporation > Luminant > Nebraska Public Power District > NextEra Energy > Omaha Public Power District > PG&E Corporation > Pinnacle West Capital Corporation > PPL Susquehanna > Progress Energy Inc. > Public Service Enterprise Group > SCANA Corporation > State Nuclear Power Demonstration Plant (SNPDP) > Southern California Edison Company > Southern Nuclear Operating Company > STP Nuclear Operating Company > Tennessee Valley Authority > Wolf Creek Nuclear Operating Company > Xcel Energy Inc. > > Moscow Centre > Category 1 > Armenian Nuclear Power Plant CJSC > CEZ, a.s. > Concern Rosenergoatom > Fortum Power and Heat Oy > FSUE Atomflot > Jiangsu Nuclear Power Corporation > Kozloduy NPP > NNEGC Energoatom > Nuclear Power Corporation of India Ltd. (\*also affiliated with Tokyo Centre) > Nuclear Power Production and Development Company of Iran > Paks NPP Ltd. > Slovenské elektrárne, a.s. > > Category 3 > Atomenergorement > Ignalina Nuclear Power Plant > JSC Atomtechenergo > JSC OKB Gidropress > State Specialised Enterprise Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant > VIINAES > > Paris Centre > Category 1 > Asociacion Nuclear Asco-Vandellos II (ANAV) > CC.NN. Almaraz-Trillo > China Guangdong Nuclear Power Holding Co, Ltd. (CGNPC) > E.ON Kernkraft GmbH > EDF Energy > Electricité de France (EDF) > Electrabel > Eletrobras Termonuclear S/A Eletronuclear S/A (\*also affiliated with Atlanta Centre) > EnBW Kernkraft GmbH (EnKK) > Iberdrola Generacion > Nucleoeléctrica Argentina SA (NASA) > Nuklearna Elektrarna Krško (NEK) > RWE Power AG > SAN.V. Elektriciteits – Produktiemaatschappij Zuid – Nederland (NV EPZ) > Sellafield Limited > Swissnuclear > Teollisuuden Voima Oyj (TVO) > Vattenfall AB, BG Pan Europe > > Category 2 > Daya Bay Nuclear Power Operations and Management Co. > Forsmarks Kraftsgrupp AB > Fujian Ningde Nuclear Power Company > Gemeinschafts Kernkraftwerk Grohnde > Kernkraftwerk Brokdorf > Kernkraftwerk Grafenrheinfeld > Kernkraftwerk Isar > Kernkraftwerk Unterweser > Liaoning Hongyanhe Nuclear Power Company > Magnox North Ltd. > Nuclenor > OKG Aktiebolag (Oskarshamn) > Ringhals AB > Taishan Nuclear Power Joint Venture Company > > Category 3 > ENEL SpA > Gas Natural, sdg > KSU > Svensk Kärnbränslehantering AB (SKB) > > Tokyo Centre > Category 1 > BHAVINI > China National Nuclear Corp. (CNNC) > Japanese Nuclear Operators (JNO) > Korea Hydro & Nuclear Power Co. > Nuclear Power Corporation of India Ltd. (\*also affiliated with Moscow Centre) > Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission (PAEC) (\*also affiliated with Atlanta Centre) > Taiwan Power Company > > Category 2 > Chubu Electric Power Company > Chugoku Electric Power Company > Electric Power Development Co., Ltd > Fujian Fuqing Nuclear Power Company > Hokuriku Electric Power Company > Hokkaido Electric Power Company > Japan Atomic Energy Agency (JAEA) > Japan Atomic Power Company > Kansai Electric Power Co., Inc. > Kyushu Electric Power Co., Inc. > Nuclear Power Qinshan JVC > Qinshan Nuclear Power Company > Sanmen Nuclear Power Company (\*also affiliated with Atlanta Centre) > Shikoku Electric Power Company > Third Qinshan Nuclear Power Co. > Tohoku Electric Power Company > Tokyo Electric Power Company > > Category 3 > Japan Nuclear Technology Institute (JANTI) WANO Mission: > [@](#): > > To maximise the safety and reliability of nuclear power plants worldwide by working together to assess, benchmark and improve performance through mutual support, exchange of information and emulation of best practices. Go upstairs and empty the dishwasher for your mom. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-unsafe-nuclear-energy/606185/18 "2011-12-14T18:00:10Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Jesus Fuck, why are you still here?! Everyone hates you, your threads are stupid, and I suspect your penis is quite small. Do us a favor and go clutter up some other board with your stupidity. Speak for yourself missy. I love this guy and I find his threads intellectually exciting. I can also tell you from first hand experience that his penis is quite large. His penis is so grand that other penis’ go flaccid and bow in its presence. You could only dream of such a glorious penis and if you are lucky in this life you might be blessed to find a penis that is half as stupendous and lucious as his. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-unsafe-nuclear-energy/606185/19 "2011-12-14T18:04:42Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > I can also tell you from first hand experience that his penis is quite large. Dinosauric, even. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-unsafe-nuclear-energy/606185/20 "2011-12-14T18:17:34Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Chernobyl was fucking bad, but at least it was a brand new reactor, one load of fuel, no spent fuel to burn, yadda yadda yadda. It only caused millions of early deaths from cancer, nothing to worry too much about. Even the anti-nuclear psychopaths at Greenpeace, IN A REPORT PURPORTING TO SHOW THAT THE DEATH TOLL FROM CHERNOBYL SHOULD BE RAISED, only claim 250,000 deaths. > **[Archive-It Wayback Machine](https://wayback.archive-it.org/9650/http:/p3-raw.greenpeace.org/international/en/news/features/chernobyl-deaths-180406/)** (The actual number put forth by legitimate scientists ranges from 20 to 60 thousand, fwiw.) Your claim of “millions” is a lie. What does kill millions of people is the effects of continued fossil fuel burning, including both atmospheric pollution and global warming, that persist because the likes of you refuse to let nuclear energy become more widespread. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-unsafe-nuclear-energy/606185.md?page=2)