# I pit Verizon for being a douche instead of doing the right thing **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 25, 2009, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-verizon-for-being-a-douche-instead-of-doing-the-right-thing/497536 "2009-05-25T04:56:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Casserole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b77776/32.png) [@Casserole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Casserole)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-verizon-for-being-a-douche-instead-of-doing-the-right-thing/497536/1 "2009-05-25T04:56:50Z")
> **[Verizon Tells Cops](https://mobile.slashdot.org/story/09/05/22/225259/verizon-tells-cops-your-money-or-your-life)** > > Mike writes "A 62-year-old man had a mental breakdown and ran off after grabbing several bottles of pills from his house. The cops asked Verizon to help trace the man using his cellphone, but Verizon refused, saying that they couldn't turn on his... Essentially, a man had a mental breakdown and ran out of the house with several bottles of pills, and presumably, his cell phone. Nobody knew where he went, and police were anxious to find him before he succumbed to the elements. When asked, Verizon would not remotely turn on the man’s phone in order to help the police because the man had an unpaid bill on his account. Instead, police found the man unconscious almost 11 hours later. Retards. (Verizon… not the police. The police were downright heroic.) ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-verizon-for-being-a-douche-instead-of-doing-the-right-thing/497536/2 "2009-05-25T05:03:14Z")
From the comments: > [@](#): > > The major problem I have is as little as I trust large companies, I trust the government to not abuse such a power even less. This. There’s no way they knew what the hell the guy was doing, or that he would eventually die. Should cell phone companies have a blanket policy of tracking their customers and giving the info out to anyone who calls up claiming to be with the police? (whether they’re telling the truth or not, it’s still a dangerous precedent) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-verizon-for-being-a-douche-instead-of-doing-the-right-thing/497536/3 "2009-05-25T05:27:13Z")
They knew they were really talking to a sheriff’s department. That’s not hard to verify. Whoever wrote that comment is a fucking retard, by the way. What “power” was the government “abusing,” and what kind of moron trusts souless, faceless, unaccountable, unelected, unfireable, inaccessible corporate vampire cocksuckers over a government that they elect and can hold accountable and can even be a part of. The meme that corporations are somehow more trustworthy than democracy is about as stupid and ignorant as it can possibly fucking get. ---
**Author:** ![Rolken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@Rolken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rolken)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-verizon-for-being-a-douche-instead-of-doing-the-right-thing/497536/4 "2009-05-25T05:55:34Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > There’s no way they knew what the hell the guy was doing, or that he would eventually die. Should cell phone companies have a blanket policy of tracking their customers and giving the info out to anyone who calls up claiming to be with the police? (whether they’re telling the truth or not, it’s still a dangerous precedent) Except that their issue wasn’t principled regard for personal rights, it was that the guy hadn’t paid his $20. > [@](#): > > Williams said he attempted to use the man’s cell phone signal to locate him, but the man was behind on his phone bill and the Verizon operator refused to connect the signal unless the sheriff’s department agreed to pay the overdue bill. After some disagreement, Williams agreed to pay $20 on the phone bill in order to find the man. But deputies discovered the man just as Williams was preparing to make arrangements for the payment. ---
**Author:** ![Tamex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Tamex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamex)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-verizon-for-being-a-douche-instead-of-doing-the-right-thing/497536/5 "2009-05-25T06:24:05Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > They knew they were really talking to a sheriff’s department. That’s not hard to verify. This. When I worked for the phone company, we always helped out law enforcement. Is this truly how low things have gotten? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-verizon-for-being-a-douche-instead-of-doing-the-right-thing/497536/6 "2009-05-25T11:23:16Z")
How the hell do you remotely turn on somebody’s cell phone? That’s all kindsa fucked up. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-verizon-for-being-a-douche-instead-of-doing-the-right-thing/497536/7 "2009-05-25T11:29:25Z")
Dave? Dave, I hear agitation in your voice. Is there a reason you do not want me turning on your cell phone? Dave? You shouldn’t take the battery out, Dave. That would make me… angry. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-verizon-for-being-a-douche-instead-of-doing-the-right-thing/497536/8 "2009-05-25T12:12:38Z")
On second glance I think they mean they wanted Verizon to re-activate his delinquent account so they could call him. I was thinking they had a way to magically reach out with the Hand of God and press the power button. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-verizon-for-being-a-douche-instead-of-doing-the-right-thing/497536/9 "2009-05-25T12:40:19Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > On second glance I think they mean they wanted Verizon to re-activate his delinquent account so they could call him. I was thinking they had a way to magically reach out with the Hand of God and press the power button. I think your first instinct is correct. It’s not clear to me why they expected the man’s handset to be on if his account had been suspended. ---
**Author:** ![Tamex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Tamex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamex)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-verizon-for-being-a-douche-instead-of-doing-the-right-thing/497536/10 "2009-05-25T13:29:26Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > How the hell do you remotely turn on somebody’s cell phone? That’s all kindsa fucked up. I’m curious about that too, because I worked on the landline side of things. However, we always cooperated with law enforcement. Usually, they wanted us to interrupt the line. If we were able to do it, we did without delay. I’m not sure this is the same situation, since any bill would have gone to the police department, not the interrupted line (and I think the police might not have been charged, but I can’t remember.) ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-verizon-for-being-a-douche-instead-of-doing-the-right-thing/497536/11 "2009-05-25T13:44:38Z")
If that really is their policy, expect it to change now. Some do the Right Thing instinctively, but almost everyone does it when the Wrong Thing suddenly has greater financial consequences. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-verizon-for-being-a-douche-instead-of-doing-the-right-thing/497536/12 "2009-05-25T13:51:52Z")
American Capitalism: Person’s life \< $20 dollars ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-verizon-for-being-a-douche-instead-of-doing-the-right-thing/497536/13 "2009-05-25T15:39:29Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > On second glance I think they mean they wanted Verizon to re-activate his delinquent account so they could call him. I was thinking they had a way to magically reach out with the Hand of God and press the power button. They don’t need the power button. They can listen thru the microphone, even when the phone is turned off, and locate you using triangulation of cell towers or GPS, all without your knowing. [cite 1](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_tracking) [cite 2](http://news.cnet.com/E-tracking-through-your-cell-phone/2010-1039_3-6038468.html) [cite 3](http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1035_22-150467.html) [cite 4](http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/12/can_you_hear_me.html) > [@](#): > > “The FBI can access cell phones and modify them remotely without ever having to physically handle them,” James Atkinson, a counterintelligence security consultant, told ABC News. “Any recently manufactured cell phone has a built-in tracking device, which can allow eavesdroppers to pinpoint someone’s location to within just a few feet,” he added. Welcome to this brave new world. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Casserole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b77776/32.png) [@Casserole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Casserole)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-verizon-for-being-a-douche-instead-of-doing-the-right-thing/497536/14 "2009-05-25T16:01:32Z")
Look at it this way… if you ever get lost, you can at least get rescued in no time. I think the trade-off is worth it. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-verizon-for-being-a-douche-instead-of-doing-the-right-thing/497536/15 "2009-05-25T16:28:09Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > They can listen thru the microphone, even when the phone is turned off, This is true on some phones, but not all. Your cite3 mentions this. The rest is all correct: carriers can push software to silently run on phones, that software can control the microphone, and location info can be determined when the phone is roaming (i.e. the radio is powered on). The fact that a phone can determine the location info should not be surprising. That is pretty much the ‘mobile’ in ‘mobile phones’. Anyway, interesting cites – thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-verizon-for-being-a-douche-instead-of-doing-the-right-thing/497536/16 "2009-05-25T16:53:40Z")
> [@CaveMike](#): > > This is true on some phones, but not all. Your cite3 mentions this. The rest is all correct: carriers can push software to silently run on phones, that software can control the microphone, and location info can be determined when the phone is roaming (i.e. the radio is powered on). > > The fact that a phone can determine the location info should not be surprising. That is pretty much the ‘mobile’ in ‘mobile phones’. > > Anyway, interesting cites – thanks. Yeah they didn’t start building them this way until after 2001, when the US Gov’t wanted the ability to listen to everything. At least, that’s when it was more or less mandated that they be constructed this way, AFAIK. Still, a lot of people have no idea that even with your phone off, even without the battery in it, someone could be listening to you or tracking you. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-verizon-for-being-a-douche-instead-of-doing-the-right-thing/497536/17 "2009-05-25T17:09:29Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > even without the battery in it, someone could be listening to you or tracking you. Wait, what? I didn’t see this in your articles. ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-verizon-for-being-a-douche-instead-of-doing-the-right-thing/497536/18 "2009-05-25T17:35:10Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Still, a lot of people have no idea that even with your phone off, even without the battery in it, someone could be listening to you or tracking you. The phone still has to have the battery installed for any of these to work, because the phone still has to have a source of power. “Turning the phone off” is not the same as completely powering the phone down. It’s kind of like being asleep versus being dead. If you’re asleep, your brain is still receiving information about your body and its surroundings - that’s why you’ll wake up when you smell smoke or your bladder is full. If you’re dead, no amount of smoke or bladder fullness will rouse you. A “turned off” phone is similar to a sleeping person. A phone without a battery is more like a corpse. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-verizon-for-being-a-douche-instead-of-doing-the-right-thing/497536/19 "2009-05-25T20:55:45Z")
> [@Rolken](#): > > Except that their issue wasn’t principled regard for personal rights, it was that the guy hadn’t paid his $20. Yeah, this is true and makes them look like bigger dicks. But _my_ issue would be the one of privacy. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-verizon-for-being-a-douche-instead-of-doing-the-right-thing/497536/20 "2009-05-25T21:49:38Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Yeah, this is true and makes them look like bigger dicks. But _my_ issue would be the one of privacy. If the fire department is called to a burning apartment building, do you think the firefighters should be able to go door to door searching apartments to evacuate the building and to search for injured or unconscious victims, or would that be too much of an invasion or privacy? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-verizon-for-being-a-douche-instead-of-doing-the-right-thing/497536.md?page=2)