# I Pit Where Liberalism Has Gone **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 6, 2016, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811 "2016-10-06T23:58:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/182 "2016-10-09T01:26:50Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > If only there was a global computer network that allowed you to find information with simple searches. > > Oh ya…we are using it right now. > > [URL=“[http://legaldictionary.net/sexual-assault/](http://legaldictionary.net/sexual-assault/)”] I didn’t know [Legaldictionary.net](http://Legaldictionary.net) was a serious source! ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/183 "2016-10-09T01:29:54Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > I didn’t know [Legaldictionary.net](http://Legaldictionary.net) was a serious source! It is fine for general, almost universal contexts and is far more valid that some random person on a bulletin board whom actually seems to believe that pinning a woman against a wall and kissing her after she says no is not against the law. [ > [@](#): > > Sexual assault is **any type of sexual contact or behavior** that occurs without the explicit consent of the recipient. ]([Office on Violence Against Women (OVW) | Sexual Assault](https://www.justice.gov/ovw/sexual-assault)) but if you want to resort to tautology, cite that it is not. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/184 "2016-10-09T01:45:31Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > It is fine for general, almost universal contexts and is far more valid that some random person on a bulletin board whom actually seems to believe that pinning a woman against a wall and kissing her after she says no is not against the law. > [URL=“[Office on Violence Against Women (OVW) | Sexual Assault](https://www.justice.gov/ovw/sexual-assault)”] > > but if you want to resort to tautology, cite that it is not. amazing how you left out: “Falling under the definition of sexual assault are sexual activities as forced sexual intercourse, forcible sodomy, child molestation, incest, fondling, and attempted rape” I don’t see kissing in there. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/185 "2016-10-09T01:47:48Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > amazing how you left out: “Falling under the definition of sexual assault are sexual activities as forced sexual intercourse, forcible sodomy, child molestation, incest, fondling, and attempted rape” > > I don’t see kissing in there. > **[Fernando Carrillo Charged With Sexual Assault For Kissing Woman In Miami](https://www.latintimes.com/fernando-carrillo-charged-sexual-assault-kissing-woman-miami-308861)** > > Fernando Carrillo was charged with sexual assault after he force-kissed a female security guard from his building and said that's how people do it in his country. OK I’ll keep googling for you, while you play armchair lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/186 "2016-10-09T01:55:14Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > [Fernando Carrillo Charged With Sexual Assault For Kissing Woman In Miami](http://www.latintimes.com/fernando-carrillo-charged-sexual-assault-kissing-woman-miami-308861) > > OK I’ll keep googling for you, while you play armchair lawyer. you’re the one citing “legal documents” and one instance of someone actually charging a person with sex assault over this, and he didn’t even get jail time, something REAL sexual assailants tend to get. You are also aware that judges sometimes make bad rulings, like the Central Park Five, right. yep, another SJW. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/187 "2016-10-09T02:06:34Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > you’re the one citing “legal documents” and one instance of someone actually charging a person with sex assault over this, and he didn’t even get jail time, something REAL sexual assailants tend to get. You are also aware that judges sometimes make bad rulings, like the Central Park Five, right. > > yep, another SJW. Feel free to pretend that holding and pressing your lips against a woman who doesn’t want you to isn’t sexual assault. Dismissal of sexual assault goes well with your bigotry towards trans people and your general idiocy and cowardice as well. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/188 "2016-10-09T02:19:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > More on Vidor from the Wikipedia entry: > > “Vidor was known as a “sundown town,” where African Americans were not allowed after sunset; it has also long been a haven for the Ku Klux Klan. In 1993, after the U.S. federal government attempted to bring African Americans into Vidor’s public housing, the Klan held a march in the community, prompting African American families to move out within a matter of months.” > > Places like this still exist in America. Is it wrong to say that white supremacism is still strong in places like that? No. It’s fair. And many places in America aren’t safe for a white man to be in after dark or even during the day. Racism of all sorts exists. But it seems to be only an issue in one circumstance. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/189 "2016-10-09T02:21:46Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Sexism isn’t about hate, it is about condescension. If you are a sexist manager/ceo/whatever, you don’t see a woman as equal to a man. The reason you only pay them 80% of what you pay a man is because they are only worth 60% of what a man is. > > Taking that perspective into account, does that answer your question? So there is a nationwide wage conspiracy now? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/190 "2016-10-09T02:23:28Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Feel free to pretend that holding and pressing your lips against a woman who doesn’t want you to isn’t sexual assault. Dismissal of sexual assault goes well with your bigotry towards trans people and your general idiocy and cowardice as well. Was Trump convicted? I notice you have high standards for accusations regarding Hillary’s _alleged_ transgressions. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/191 "2016-10-09T02:24:13Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > So there is a nationwide wage conspiracy now? Conspiracies are secret, this has been common knowledge for decades, and it is due to social constructs. If this is news to you, it may be a good time to consider some hobbies that involve activities like reading or watching the news. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/192 "2016-10-09T02:31:30Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Conspiracies are secret, this has been common knowledge for decades, and it is due to social constructs. > > If this is news to you, it may be a good time to consider some hobbies that involve activities like reading or watching the news. Sounds like if the women were truly underpaid then competitors would snatch up this underpaid labor with the promise of more money bringing the value up to the proper equilibrium point. What you are suggesting requires collusion. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/193 "2016-10-09T02:34:54Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > No. It’s fair. And many places in America aren’t safe for a white man to be in after dark or even during the day. Racism of all sorts exists. But it seems to be only an issue in one circumstance. Bullshit, there is crime but it typically white males are victimized less. They may look dangerous to you from your fear ridden suburban cul de sac viewpoint. But if you are having problems walking anywhere it is because they can tell you are judging them and looking at them like an animal. I am a white male and have walked through ethnic neighborhoods all across the west coast, and often at night with zero problems. Us white men have it flipping easy, and while there are jerks within any population most people whom didn’t have the advantage of being born white a male only want to be treated like a human. And guess what we are all that, human. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/194 "2016-10-09T04:05:51Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > [Fernando Carrillo Charged With Sexual Assault For Kissing Woman In Miami](http://www.latintimes.com/fernando-carrillo-charged-sexual-assault-kissing-woman-miami-308861) > > OK I’ll keep googling for you, while you play armchair lawyer. Kissing isn’t sexual assault, dingbat. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/195 "2016-10-09T04:12:56Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Kissing isn’t sexual assault, dingbat. Unwanted kissing is sexual assault in several states…it is assault 4 in mine - creepybat? ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/196 "2016-10-09T04:34:46Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Kissing isn’t sexual assault, dingbat. [Yes, it is.](https://www.justice.gov.nt.ca/en/files/victim-services/Sexual%20Assault%20Presentation.pdf) (.pdf warning) From [here](http://www.sexualityandu.ca/sexual-health/sex-and-the-law/sexual-assault): > [@](#): > > Over three quarters of sexual assaults involve unwanted sexual touching, kissing, grabbing, or fondling. [Another cite](http://www.un.org/womenwatch/osagi/pdf/whatissh.pdf), and another pdf warning. [US Coast Guard protocols:](https://www.uscg.mil/worklife/sapr_glossary.asp) > [@](#): > > . Sexual assault includes rape, forcible sodomy, and other unwanted indecent contact (e.g., kissing against another person’s will) that is aggravated, abusive, or wrongful (to include unwanted and inappropriate sexual contact), or attempts to commit these acts [PDF from CASA](http://www.casa.org.au/casa_pdf.php?document=what_is_SA) (Centres Against Sexual Assault), which says: > [@](#): > > Examples of sexual assault include: > Stalking e.g. repeatedly being followed or watched by someone; > Rape e.g. being forced to have vaginal, anal or oral sex’ > Unwanted touching e.g. pinching, patting, embracing, rubbing, groping, flicking, kissing, fondling, being touched > on the breasts, bum, legs etc; Do I need to go on? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/197 "2016-10-09T04:47:09Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Bullshit, there is crime but it typically white males are victimized less. > They may look dangerous to you from your fear ridden suburban cul de sac viewpoint. But if you are having problems walking anywhere it is because they can tell you are judging them and looking at them like an animal. I am a white male and have walked through ethnic neighborhoods all across the west coast, and often at night with zero problems. > > Us white men have it flipping easy, and while there are jerks within any population most people whom didn’t have the advantage of being born white a male only want to be treated like a human. And guess what we are all that, human. I guess high crime areas are only that way because someone walked through them and got jumped, mugged, murdered, or actually raped for offending the inhabitants by merely looking at them? What you are saying makes those areas sound even worse. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/198 "2016-10-09T05:21:28Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > And many places in America aren’t safe for a white man to be in after dark or even during the day. Racism of all sorts exists. Any evidence that those places engage in hate crimes against whites, and it’s not simply that they are dangerous parts of the country _period_? > [@Wesley Clark](#): > > Bill Maher gets credit for calling them out on this bullshit though. Liberalism is ideally a support of liberal values, not a rejection of a western power structure. (this quote is from page 1 but I got here late…) I’m generally a fan of Bill Maher, but I’m embarrassed when he starts his Muslim rhetoric. Because guest after guest on _Real Time_ tries to explain to him that it’s not about condoning everything done by Islamic groups everywhere, or pretending Islamic terrorism is not a thing: it’s about not engaging in bigotry, and not fueling an us-versus-Islam view of the world. Every fucking time he loses the argument, but then the next time I tune in he’s making the same sweeping statements about Muslims again. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/199 "2016-10-09T05:25:21Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I guess high crime areas are only that way because someone walked through them and got jumped, mugged, murdered, or actually raped for offending the inhabitants by merely looking at them? What you are saying makes those areas sound even worse. No, high crime areas have multiple causes and/or factors. But the claim that there are areas that people are unsafe because they are white men is absurd. The areas you say sound worse typically don’t exist outside the paranoid minds of individuals whom’s fear keeps them from a fuller, more interesting life. Full of far more experiences than can be provided by a HOA and a riding lawn mower. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/200 "2016-10-09T06:01:51Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > No, high crime areas have multiple causes and/or factors. But the claim that there are areas that people are unsafe because they are white men is absurd. > > The areas you say sound worse typically don’t exist outside the paranoid minds of individuals whom’s fear keeps them from a fuller, more interesting life. Full of far more experiences than can be provided by a HOA and a riding lawn mower. Basically you are making the silly claim that only white people can behave in a racist fashion or hold racist thoughts. Well, reality disagrees. Implying fear and ignorance to dismiss inconvenient truths is weak. I’ve lived in high crime, diverse areas and the amount of bigotry and misogyny from all groups is astounding. I agree it is an experience unlike maintaining one’s property value in tranquility. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/201 "2016-10-09T06:07:46Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Basically you are making the silly claim that only white people can behave in a racist fashion or hold racist thoughts. Well, reality disagrees. > > Implying fear and ignorance to dismiss inconvenient truths is weak. I’ve lived in high crime, diverse areas and the amount of bigotry and misogyny from all groups is astounding. I agree it is an experience unlike maintaining one’s property value in tranquility. OH bullshit, I was responding to an insane claim that there were areas where white men couldn’t safely walk. Everything else in your post is purely a fanciful creation of your imagination. Climb down off your cross. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811.md?page=11)