# I Pit Where Liberalism Has Gone **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 6, 2016, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811 "2016-10-06T23:58:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/322 "2016-10-13T05:57:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > We could certainly have a conversation about this, or you could read about it. I named some behaviors, and I’m sure you can think of more – what are other behaviors which demonstrate a feeling of entitlement to women’s bodies without regard to their feelings? > > Taylor’s a good guy. It doesn’t mean he can’t be criticized. He was criticized and he learned from it, and we all learned what a good and thoughtful dude he is. > > How about the stories just breaking _right now_ that three women have come forward and said that Trump groped them? Is that still no big deal to you? Or do you think they were encouraging him to grope them? In the words of an esteemed political advisor. > [@James Carville](#): > > Drag a hundred-dollar bill through a trailer park, you never know what you’ll find ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/323 "2016-10-13T09:14:29Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > In the words of an esteemed political advisor. ??? What does this have to do with anything I said? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/324 "2016-10-13T20:36:22Z")
I think he’s implying that the women coming forth, now, with charges of sexual assault against Trump, are doing it only for the money (or fame.) It’s a commonplace form of personal attack of the ugly “smear” variety. It was used to powerful effect against Anita Hill when she exposed Clarence Thomas’ sexual offenses. It’s not much different from “she was wearing revealing clothing” or “she’d had sex with him before.” Consistent with an anti-woman mind-set. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/325 "2016-10-14T01:34:39Z")
You guys can’t be serious with this feigned ignorance of James Carville and his character attacks on behalf of the Clintons. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/326 "2016-10-14T02:59:55Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Except short men are far more likely to have been bullied (both socially/emotionally and physically), made fun of, and had less friends in school, and [are prone to violent suicide](https://www.google.com/search?q=short+men+violent+suicide). While I agree that discrimination and shaming directed at short men is bad, your link doesn’t actually say what you think it does. It describes a heightened risk of violent suicide among men **who had short birth length as newborns** , not just among men **who are short as adults** : > [@](#): > > Young male Swedish conscripts who had subnormal birth lengths (less than 47 cm, or 18.5 in) had a more than doubled risk for violent suicide attempts than their peers with normal birth lengths, **even if their growth caught up in childhood** , according to a recent study. Emphasis added. The linked article does say that men who are short as adults also have a heightened suicide risk, **except it defines “short” very broadly** (so to speak): > [@](#): > > Short men (150 to 177 cm, or 4 ft 11 in to 5 ft 10 in) who had normal birth lengths (51 to 52 cm, or 20 to 20.5 in) also had an increased risk for suicide attempts. In other words, “short” as a descriptor of adult male height in that study is anything up to and including 5’10". I’m guessing that the five-foot-ten guys are not really the ones you’re thinking of when you mention victims of anti-short-male prejudice. > [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Trump never talked about putting GHB in anyone’s drink, tying anyone down, and the context could’ve easily meant things girls non-verbally encourage him to do. :dubious: Now there’s some faint praise for you. _“Okay, he may have ogled and groped and forcibly embraced and kissed a bunch of non-consenting women, but at least he never (as far as we now know) drugged anyone or immobilized an unwilling woman with physical restraints! Give the guy some credit, can’t ya?”_ ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/327 "2016-10-14T03:21:27Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You guys can’t be serious with this feigned ignorance of James Carville and his character attacks on behalf of the Clintons. The source is understood. The relevance remains unclear. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/328 "2016-10-14T03:28:01Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > And your fingers are even shorter than those of Donald Trump. My fingers are long and luxurious. They’re yuge. Just creepy long and alien-like. Wait. Scratch that last part. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/329 "2016-10-14T03:40:48Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The source is understood. The relevance remains unclear. When Clinton has an issue with women sick an attack dog, Carville, to disparage the accusers. When Trump has an issue with women every accusation must be 100% true. I find the hypocrisy interesting. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/330 "2016-10-14T04:04:03Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > When Clinton has an issue with women sick an attack dog, Carville, to disparage the accusers. When Trump has an issue with women every accusation must be 100% true. > > I find the hypocrisy interesting. Meh, I don’t see it that way, Bill Clinton’s feet already were put to the fire. (it may had been deservely so, but in the end the doubt remains as per what the courts resolved and the settlements made) It is the Turn of Trump and he is reacting like a whiny man child wanting to sue the press for being mean. A press that Trump has treatened to do even worse things to it if he gets the power. Not even Bill Clinton offered to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/331 "2016-10-14T04:09:00Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > When Clinton has an issue with women sick an attack dog, Carville, to disparage the accusers. When Trump has an issue with women every accusation must be 100% true. > > I find the hypocrisy interesting. Nobody here is defending Carville’s insinuations against women who alleged sexual assault. The hypocrisy is chiefly on the side of the Trump defenders, such as his [campaign manager](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/13/trump-dragged-hillary-and-all-of-us-down.html) who called for believing accusers when she was talking about sexual assault allegations against Bill Clinton but then dismissed sexual assault allegations against Trump as fabricated: > [@](#): > > Earlier this week, Kellyanne Conway, Trump’s campaign manager, shared a Clinton tweet from 2015 that said, “every survivor of sexual assault deserves to be heard, believed and supported.” Conway quipped, “RT if you agree “Every” the operative word here.” She didn’t seem to know at the time that, a few days later, her campaign would be denying the credibility of its own accusers. After The New York Times published the accounts of Leeds and Crooks on Wednesday evening, the campaign released a statement: “This entire article is fiction,” it read. > > Then the Trump campaign accused the Times of doing something they’ve been doing themselves: “To reach back decades in an attempt to smear Mr. Trump trivializes sexual assault, and it sets a new low for where the media is willing to go in its efforts to determine this election.” ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/332 "2016-10-14T05:02:01Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > When Clinton has an issue with women sick an attack dog, Carville, to disparage the accusers. When Trump has an issue with women every accusation must be 100% true. > > I find the hypocrisy interesting. If Carville was wrong to defend Clinton, then those who defend Trump must also be wrong. You can’t have it both ways. I find the hypocrisy interesting. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/333 "2016-10-14T10:17:41Z")
I find it interesting that, according to Trump supporters, we are supposed to ignore what Trump did 10 years ago while focusing on what Clinton’s husband, (not Clinton), did 20 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/334 "2016-10-14T10:23:20Z")
There’s no hypocrisy. I’m perfectly happy for Trump to undergo the same level of public and legal scrutiny as Bill Clinton did, the same level of innuendo and insinuation from the media and his political opponents as Bill Clinton did, and for Trump to spend the rest of his days being referred to as a sleazy philanderer and alleged rapist as Bill Clinton has and will. Fair’s fair, after all. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/335 "2016-10-14T11:09:23Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > When Clinton has an issue with women sick an attack dog, Carville, to disparage the accusers. When Trump has an issue with women every accusation must be 100% true. > > I find the hypocrisy interesting. Your straw man might be hypocritical, but you were responding to me with the Carville quote. What did I say that was hypocritical? ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/336 "2016-10-14T11:34:19Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > He’s such an obvious troll that I cannot even respond to him seriously. His arguments over time, or even within a thread, are often so contradictory and bizarre that if he’s not trolling, he’s honest-to-goodness insane and probably shouldn’t be using a computer in the first place. yes true. but the tea-room moderation keeps us well stocked in the promoters of hatred and in the trolls who know how to maintain the mask and fiction of politeness ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/337 "2016-10-14T14:57:26Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Your straw man might be hypocritical, but you were responding to me with the Carville quote. What did I say that was hypocritical? Not necessarily what you wrote though I do think you are far too generous towards the slimes on the left. It’s more about just how filthy political tactics are on each side. Disparaging the character of an accuser is not unique to the right. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/338 "2016-10-14T15:01:12Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Not necessarily what you wrote though I do think you are far too generous towards the slimes on the left. I’d like to see an example of this. > [@](#): > > It’s more about just how filthy political tactics are on each side. Disparaging the character of an accuser is not unique to the right. No. Nominating a candidate who has consistently disparaged women over decades, and continuing to support him after video surfaces of him bragging about sexual assault (along with accusers with allegations that match this bragging), is unique to the right (not all of the right, but a huge portion of it), at least at this moment. Any hypocrisy on the left from the 90s doesn’t come close to what’s happening right now with Republican leaders. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/339 "2016-10-14T15:05:27Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’d like to see an example of this. > > No. Nominating a candidate who has consistently disparaged women over decades, and continuing to support him after video surfaces of him bragging about sexual assault (along with accusers with allegations that match this bragging), is unique to the right (not all of the right, but a huge portion of it), at least at this moment. > > Any hypocrisy on the left from the 90s doesn’t come close to what’s happening right now with Republican leaders. Oh please. If Bill were eligible to run and he didn’t look so rough, he’d crush The Donald. I’m surprised it was close for awhile with Hilary. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/340 "2016-10-14T15:25:36Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Oh please. If Bill were eligible to run and he didn’t look so rough, he’d crush The Donald. I’m surprised it was close for awhile with Hilary. Whether true or not, what does this have to do with what I said? What did I say that’s incorrect? ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/341 "2016-11-03T13:20:48Z")
hope the progressives in this thread who trashed me are happy if Trump wins Tuesday! I held my nose and voted for the Democratic nominee (who I like personally bc I like the Clintons) mainly because I guess I am a “neo-conservative” but if the rest of the country doesn’t, I think its fair to say that Barack Hussein Obama’s heavy bet on identity politics and left-wing social stances alienated much of the country. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811.md?page=18)