# I Pit Where Liberalism Has Gone **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 6, 2016, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811 "2016-10-06T23:58:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/342 "2016-11-03T13:28:42Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > I think its fair to say that Barack Hussein Obama’s heavy bet on identity politics and left-wing social stances alienated much of the country. Except that there was no heavy bet on identity politics and left wing social stances. Sure must’ve burned you that we had a BLACK president. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/343 "2016-11-03T13:34:48Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > hope the progressives in this thread who trashed me are happy if Trump wins Tuesday! I held my nose and voted for the Democratic nominee (who I like personally bc I like the Clintons) mainly because I guess I am a “neo-conservative” but if the rest of the country doesn’t, I think its fair to say that Barack Hussein Obama’s heavy bet on identity politics and left-wing social stances alienated much of the country. Obama’s approval is very high. You’re “trashed” because you’ve said hateful and bigoted (and false) things, as well as incredibly stupid false things. If you don’t want to be trashed, stop saying hateful and bigoted things, and stop saying stupid and fact-free nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/344 "2016-11-03T13:42:37Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Except that there was no heavy bet on identity politics and left wing social stances. > > Sure must’ve burned you that we had a BLACK president. yep, every man a raciss’. Actually, I’m not the only one to make [the observation I did](http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/democrats-have-an-identity-politics-problem/448776/). [QUOTE=iiandyiiii] Obama’s approval is very high. You’re “trashed” because you’ve said hateful and bigoted (and false) things, as well as incredibly stupid false things. [/QUOTE] His job approvals are high because he’s not up for election, so he’s seen as more “above the fray,” and because both HRC and DJT have poor favorability ratings. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/345 "2016-11-03T13:43:12Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > hope the progressives in this thread who trashed me are happy if Trump wins Tuesday! I held my nose and voted for the Democratic nominee (who I like personally bc I like the Clintons) mainly because I guess I am a “neo-conservative” but if the rest of the country doesn’t, I think its fair to say that Barack Hussein Obama’s heavy bet on identity politics and left-wing social stances alienated much of the country. Yes, Obama alienated the country so horrifically that he currently has a 54% approval rating. Which incidentally is about 4 points higher than it was at this time in 2012, where he beat Romney by 332 electoral votes to 206. Obama alienated the country so totally that if he were running today against Trump, B. Hussein Obama would win in one of the biggest landslides in memory. B. Hussein would be wiping the floor with that deceased orange marmoset that Trump wears on top of his head. You really are a priceless fuckwit. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/346 "2016-11-03T13:58:11Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > His job approvals are high because he’s not up for election, so he’s seen as more “above the fray,” and because both HRC and DJT have poor favorability ratings. Then why did you say he’s alienated the country? He obviously hasn’t, considering his high approval. Why throw out obviously false things like this? It’s so easy to avoid. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/347 "2016-11-03T14:00:59Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > yep, every man a raciss’. Every man who insists on using Obama’s middle name for no discernible reason, and who also unapologetically says hateful and bigoted things… yes. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/348 "2016-11-03T14:04:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Then why did you say he’s alienated the country? He obviously hasn’t, considering his high approval. Why throw out obviously false things like this? It’s so easy to avoid. he’s made enough of the country potentially put Trump in the White House. Obama’s effect isn’t too different than Bill Clinton’s in 2000 in the wake of the Lewinsky scandal. I do think it hurt Gore pretty hard, but I also believe Gore hurt Gore as badly as Lewinsky did. Gore thought he’d win a state any idiot could be known would be rigged against him, FL, with his opponent’s brother in charge there. Gore got 267 EVs (before the faithless elector brought his official tally to 266 EVs) so any single state would’ve put him over the top because all states and DC have \>3 EVs. Hillary has not made huge tactical mistakes that Gore made; that’s why I hold Obama far more accountable than I do Bill in 2000. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/349 "2016-11-03T14:08:20Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > he’s made enough of the country potentially put Trump in the White House. Not according to the polling aggregates. The most conservative, 538, still has Hillary as a 2-1 favorite, and most of the others have her closer to 10-1 or higher. > [@](#): > > Obama’s effect isn’t too different than Bill Clinton’s in 2000 in the wake of the Lewinsky scandal. I do think it hurt Gore pretty hard, but I also believe Gore hurt Gore as badly as Lewinsky did. Gore thought he’d win a state any idiot could be known would be rigged against him, FL, with his opponent’s brother in charge there. Gore got 267 EVs (before the faithless elector brought his official tally to 266 EVs) so any single state would’ve put him over the top because all states and DC have \>3 EVs. Hillary has not made huge tactical mistakes that Gore made; that’s why I hold Obama far more accountable than I do Bill in 2000. So if Hillary wins big, you’ll change your mind and believe that Obama did a great job? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/350 "2016-11-03T19:23:13Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > yep, every man a raciss’. Yeah, use stereotypical black dialect to show you aren’t a racist. Good call. > [@](#): > > Actually, I’m not the only one to make [the observation I did](http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/democrats-have-an-identity-politics-problem/448776/). Serious question: why is it, do you think, that the Democratic coalition contains so many more racial minorities than the Republican coalition? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/351 "2016-11-04T04:42:36Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Actually, I’m not the only one to make [the observation I did](http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/democrats-have-an-identity-politics-problem/448776/). Kraushaar has a political prognosis record that is pathetically poor. He tends to get his facts wrong and his conclusions rarely make sense. That someone (with no particularly good credentials) happens to have bought into the Right wing talking point hardly provides support for your position. If I quoted a Creationist talking against Evolution, would that be evidence that Evolutionary Theory is wrong? No, it would just mean that one can find odd beliefs held by odd people in a lot of places. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/352 "2016-11-04T06:38:07Z")
oh, and the SPLC putting Ayaan Hirsi Ali on its hate list is yet ANOTHER great example of the decay of liberalism. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/353 "2016-11-04T12:43:43Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > …that Israel is evil, that saying anything bad about Muslimism is both bigoted AND racist (even tho Islam is not a race or ethnicity… Not a lot of bad things being said about muslims in the Maldives or Mauritania, both 100% muslim countries. Most of the “bad things” being said about muslims are being said about muslims from a particular part of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/354 "2016-11-04T12:47:24Z")
> [@Memnon](#): > > Liberalism in its most modern incarnation (what I like to call ‘Millennial liberalism’ or ‘campus liberalism’) is just a ghoulish melange of double-standards, intellectual dishonesty, cry-bullying, holier-than-thou sanctimony, and nauseating hypocritical bullshit. I think that campus liberalism has always been with us. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/355 "2016-11-04T13:00:55Z")
> [@Memnon](#): > > This is something of a bugbear for me, too. I consider myself a liberal. I strongly support progressive taxation, abortion rights, marriage equality, single-payer health care, prison reform, clean energy investment, reasonable gun control measures, SoCaS, a robust social safety-net, and the abolition of capital punishment. And don’t even get me started on the ‘War on Terror’. Yet despite all this, I’m genuinely embarrassed to tell strangers that I’m liberal. Liberalism in its most modern incarnation (what I like to call ‘Millennial liberalism’ or ‘campus liberalism’) is just a ghoulish melange of double-standards, intellectual dishonesty, cry-bullying, holier-than-thou sanctimony, and nauseating hypocritical bullshit. It’s no longer enough to support sensible wealth redistribution policies to curb the excesses of the free market. It’s no longer enough to support a foreign policy based on pragmatism and cultural sensitivity, rather than the profane marriage of militarism and Panglossian, neo-colonial wishful thinking that characterised the disastrous tenure of George W. Bush. And it’s no longer enough to want the government to just allow people to live and let live, marry whom they want, smoke what they want, and say what they want. > > No. Nowadays, to be a “proper” liberal, you also have to believe in fairy tales. You have to believe that women get paid 78 cents on the dollar for _the exact same work_ as men (they don’t). You have to believe that the best way to combat dissenting views is to ensure they don’t get aired in the first place (and, if such airings are unavoidable, that “safe-spaces” are available to cloister vulnerable spectators). You have to believe that “cultural appropriation” is both a new phenomenon and that it actually matters. You have to be blind to the cynical brutality of Islamism but heaven forfend a white guy wear the wrong fucking shirt, or chalk ‘Trump 2016’ on a sidewalk. > > It’s just excruciating, and I firmly believe the prevalence of this kind of masochistic pseudo-liberalism is one of the driving forces behind the rise of the so-called “alt-right”. People are just so sick of these social justice hypocrites, their foot-stamping, their no-platforming, their online shaming campaigns and their perpetual high-dudgeon that they’re just slingshotting to the exact opposite end of the political spectrum in a desperate effort to get away from them. > > Fuck these people. And fuck what they’ve turned liberalism into. It’s a fucking embarrassment. Before I came to this board, I thought I was a pretty liberal guy. Then I ran into the stupid shit you reference being spouted by seemingly intelligent people. That’s when I realized that a lot of liberals aren’t smart, they just parrot liberal ideas which in general are smart and in an effort to remain “smart” they continue to parrot liberal ideas regardless of whether or not they make any sense. Their failure to have reached these conclusions through critical thought leads them to try and bully others to believe what they believe and this has led to liberal thought policing. Like you said, we must now believe things like “women make 78% of what men make (all other things being equal)” So I took a walk on the other side and I think I prefer our stupid retarded assholes to their stupid retarded assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/356 "2016-11-04T13:28:12Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > oh, and the SPLC putting Ayaan Hirsi Ali on its hate list is yet ANOTHER great example of the decay of liberalism. [As in fact this did not happen](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19751678&postcount=28), but is simply the parroting of a distortion… ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2016, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/357 "2016-11-05T20:08:07Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Before I came to this board, I thought I was a pretty liberal guy. Then I ran into the stupid shit you reference being spouted by seemingly intelligent people. That’s when I realized that a lot of liberals aren’t smart, they just parrot liberal ideas which in general are smart and in an effort to remain “smart” they continue to parrot liberal ideas regardless of whether or not they make any sense. Their failure to have reached these conclusions through critical thought leads them to try and bully others to believe what they believe and this has led to liberal thought policing. Like you said, we must now believe things like “women make 78% of what men make (all other things being equal)” > > So I took a walk on the other side and I think I prefer our stupid retarded assholes to their stupid retarded assholes. You might be liberal on some issues, but you’re also an unrepentant and delusional bigot, and most liberals don’t want to be allies with an unrepentant and delusional bigot like you. What “critical thought” leads you to see trans people as “repulsive” and “disgusting” (your words)? What critical thought leads you to slander in the most cowardly way patriotic American Muslims like Khizr Khan and his family? What critical thought leads you to assert fact-free bullshit about President Obama’s beliefs? However you got to your beliefs, it wasn’t through critical thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2016, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/358 "2016-11-05T20:46:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You might be liberal on some issues, but you’re also an unrepentant and delusional bigot, and most liberals don’t want to be allies with an unrepentant and delusional bigot like you. What “critical thought” leads you to see trans people as “repulsive” and “disgusting” (your words)? What critical thought leads you to slander in the most cowardly way patriotic American Muslims like Khizr Khan and his family? What critical thought leads you to assert fact-free bullshit about President Obama’s beliefs? > > However you got to your beliefs, it wasn’t through critical thinking. Have you confused **Damuri** with **Derek** , or is **Damuri** a significantly worse person than I’d realized? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2016, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/359 "2016-11-05T22:29:21Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Have you confused **Damuri** with **Derek** , or is **Damuri** a significantly worse person than I’d realized? Oh wow, that was incredibly dumb of me. I’m very, very sorry **Damuri** – For some reason I must have seen the D and thought it was Derek. I disagree with a lot of what you post but I’ve never seen anything bigoted from you, and I greatly apologize for confusing you with someone else. :smack: Wow what an idiotic mistake. Apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/360 "2016-11-06T00:21:59Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > 10 years ago, believing in abortion rights, gay rights, equal rights for non-majority racial and ethnic members, and keeping religion out of the public square was enough to make one a liberal here in America. You could also believe and fight for those things but not have to buy every bit of college professor post-colonialism and critical race dogma. > > Now, to be a real progressive, you have to believe that “white supremacy” is something more than the Klan’s ideas, that there can be a world without borders and that borders are inherently wrong and racist, that Christopher Columbus was Hitler, that Israel is evil, that saying anything bad about Muslimism is both bigoted AND racist (even tho Islam is not a race or ethnicity), that being skeptical of transgender ideology is as bad as being a homophobe, and so on. I’ve been told that because I am skeptical of transgenderism, I’m as morally bad as people who physically attack transgendered people. > > What has happened? Is it that the left needs new fights, since all the good fights they once had are already won? I’m not going to read 8 pages to find out if this has been said already. You’re right. The problem with the left is that we have won all of the important fights and now we are fighting over scraps and bragging rights. You don’t see right-wingers bagging on each other for not being right-wing enough. They unite. We divide. We divide because we have set a ridiculous ideal and we expect our allies to adhere to them. Any indication that you don’t agree 100% with the orthodoxy means you aren’t worthy. We are a self-righteous and entirely insecure group of people. I’ll use me as an example - 'cause I’m a monkey. I absolutely believe that my country has fucked over natives left, right and center. I absolutely believe that the vast majority of their problems are a result of systemically imposed oppression. I certainly don’t believe that natives are genetically predisposed to violence. But if I’m out at night and I see a group of natives coming toward me I’m much more on guard than I am if it is a group of whites. This isn’t because natives are inherently worse than whites but because when random violence happens in my city it is generally natives that do it. All of the historicity does not change the fact that if you are out and downtown and get jumped it is more likely to be natives than white people. Expressing this opinion makes me a racist. I’m most certainly not racist. I don’t believe that their problems are because their race is problematic. I believe that their problems are result of enforced poverty and hopelessness. Give a native the same opportunities as a white person and they will have pretty much the same outcome. Ideology should not trump reality. The real truth is that if I’m to be the victim of random crime the perpetrator is more likely to be native. Refusal to accept a fact does not negate the fact. But screaming “racist” is the quickest and easiest way to demonstrate your progressiveness without actually doing anything. We are most smugly self-congratulatory people there are. So while the right-wing bands together in spite of differences of opinion on nuances we eviscerate each other over them. That, combined with the immediate convenience of myopia, is the reason that we are losing. Until such a time as we are prepared to accept that our allies might not agree with us absolutely we will continue to lose and bemoan our self-imposed fate. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > You became an idiot, if you weren’t one already. John fucking Mace yet again. Here is a NOT SAFE FOR WORK bit from [Chris Rock](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3PJF0YE-x4) and [one more](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8) Would anything he said be more or less true if he wasn’t black? Would it be more or less offensive if he was white? The tail-end of the first bit comes at the end of the stand-up CD it’s on. A black guy comes up to Chris Rock and says how much he loves black people but hates niggers and no problem. Then a Latina comes up and says the same thing. No problem. Then a white guy comes up and says the same thing - cue sounds of white guy getting his ass kicked. Chris Rock is acknowledging and mocking the notion that truth spoken is truth regardless of the colour of the mouth it comes out of. I picked race because it is the easiest to illustrate but the same standard holds true for pretty much every aspect of left-wing ideology. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811/361 "2016-11-06T01:08:34Z")
More fantasy versions of the left, **Zeke N. Destroi**. Maybe a very small portion of liberals are a bit nutty, but not the majority. Citing statistics isn’t racist. Defend an unrepentant bigot like **DerekMichaels00** if you like, but he has openly stated he feels that trans people are “repulsive” and “disgusting” and lied and made false statements about people from Khizr Khan to Barack Obama (who usually just so happen to be brown or black), among many other incredibly stupid posts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-where-liberalism-has-gone/767811.md?page=19)