[QUOTE=miss elizabeth]
You know what, Sarahfeena, I really respect you a lot as a poster, and I’m sorry I got pissy at you. I don’t think you really meant this the way I heard it. I was on WIC when my son was born, and all they offered was liquid*. I had a former friend say something similar to me, about how “lucky” I was to get nice formula for free. This was at a time in my life I was skipping breakfast every day and lunch on weekends, because I couldn’t afford food. I wasn’t lucky. I didn’t feel lucky. I felt miserable. I actually was happy they provided liquid; not because I was lucky, but because my stove was broken, and I couldn’t afford to fix it, which meant no boiling water to sterilize for mixing up formula. Being poor sucks. I guess I just can’t understand why anyone would begrudge someone who’s already doing worse then you.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks, miss elizabeth…I appreciate what you said here. Honestly, the way I look at it is this. Take that extra $2 from that earlier example. It bugs me that in a lot of cases it seems to go to purchasing expensive convenience products that are only for the benefit of the parent, rather than going to some other healthy food choice for the child. THAT is what WIC is supposed to do. I don’t consider people to be “lucky” to be on WIC (except in the general sense that they are lucky to live someplace where there is help to be found). I just expect and want people to use it to the full advantage of what it is meant to do.
I am not sure which way it is done here. I have seen people purchasing it with some kind of food stamps in our local supermarket, but I don’t know if those were actual food stamps or WIC money or what. One other thing I think kind of irks me about this subject is that when I see people buying the individual RTF bottles they are invariably using the “free” money…you can predict it before the order gets totaled up. I have come to believe that 99% of the business Enfamil & Similac do in the RTF formula comes from WIC. This just doesn’t make fiscal sense to me at all.
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena]
Right. And it would be the right choice for me, considering all of that. Except for the public trans part, I do all of that (as do the other folks at my day care…they all drive to drop off their kids). The thing is, I just can’t justify the extra expense, because the only drawback to it is an inconvenience to myself. I just suck it up.
[/QUOTE]
Well, we all have our quirks and styles with regard to money. I don’t think it’s wrong to do a minute “good” thing for your kid (particularly with regard to nutrition) if you’re cutting back somewhere else. The idea of WIC is to assist the family with nutrition. The rules are flexible because all families are different.
[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
Well, we all have our quirks and styles with regard to money. I don’t think it’s wrong to do a minute “good” thing for your kid (particularly with regard to nutrition) if you’re cutting back somewhere else. The idea of WIC is to assist the family with nutrition. The rules are flexible because all families are different.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t think it’s wrong either, but the RTF formula has no nutritional benefit over the powder. If it did, I would figure out another place to cut back, as well, to be sure my kids got the best stuff.
[QUOTE=Southern Yankee]
It’s not a matter of “deciding.” I worked at a liquor store and I can’t tell you the number of times people came in trying to buy booze with food stamps. So, yes, I stand by my post.
[/QUOTE]
You’re right, some people take advantage of the system. I’ve used it, I’ve seen it, and it pissed me off too.
But the people we are talking about here, they are the good people. They have jobs (presumably, hence the daycare); they are trying to improve their lot. They are doing the best they can to care for the children they have. This is something good. We don’t know their situation. We don’t know why, or how, or to what extent they choose this more expensive formula. We don’t know, and we could never really know, but it’s safe to assume that their life has many struggles we would not like to take on (else, why not do as nyctea scandiaca says and just quit owr jobs and live off welfare. It seems there must be a downside to this option…).
In a way, yes, it seems unfair. But to them, perhaps, a great many things seem unfair. Maybe life isn’t fair. Maybe, while we are trying to ensure the health of disadvantaged infants, some people will receive conveniences that other hard working people must do without. Maybe that is part of the price we, as a society, pay when we decide to care for the least of these. Maybe, upon further reflection, we could see that it’s worth it.
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena]
Right. And it would be the right choice for me, considering all of that. Except for the public trans part, I do all of that (as do the other folks at my day care…they all drive to drop off their kids). The thing is, I just can’t justify the extra expense, because the only drawback to it is an inconvenience to myself. I just suck it up.
[/QUOTE]
I mean this. Good for you. Really. I wish more people could be frugal and make do with circumstances of their lives.
But you know just as I well as I do that there are lot of lazy-ass people out there who will never “just suck it up”. Or, a lot of hard working people who can’t suck it up any more. If WIC is out there just for the people who have all the right circumstances (possessing stove, running water, ability to read directions) and the right mentality about finances, then you’re leaving a lot of kids out there to the whims of bad parenting and/or bad luck. WIC isn’t for the parents. It’s about ensuring the best for kids.
You should be mad that you don’t qualify, not at the “free” milk the program is handing out.
[QUOTE=jayjay]
Well…a lot of the women on WIC are teenage mothers. They’re teenage mothers at least in part because Republican/fundamentalist efforts to destroy sex education (or water it down to “Don’t do it!”) have left them without the knowledge of just HOW not to get pregnant.
[/QUOTE]
Oh, they know how not to get pregnant – don’t fuck.
That being said though, once a baby is here it’s in all our interests that the baby has the best chance possible, including a healthy diet. If WIC accomplishes that, and a parent qualifies for it (and let’s not fool ourselves into thinking qualification means much above poverty level), why would anybody begrudge a baby that? Including what the program itself says is allowable.
ETA: Yeah, what miss elizabeth said better than I did (post 64).
[QUOTE=monstro]
I mean this. Good for you. Really. I wish more people could be frugal and make do with circumstances of their lives.
But you know just as I well as I do that there are lot of lazy-ass people out there who will never “just suck it up”. Or, a lot of hard working people who can’t suck it up any more. If WIC is out there just for the people who have all the right circumstances (possessing stove, running water, ability to read directions) and the right mentality about finances, then you’re leaving a lot of kids out there to the whims of bad parenting and/or bad luck. WIC isn’t for the parents. It’s about ensuring the best for kids.
You should be mad that you don’t qualify, not at the “free” milk the program is handing out.
[/QUOTE]
Nah, I’d never be mad that I don’t qualify. I’m grateful that my husband and I are doing as well as we are, and I’m willing to work hard to keep it that way.
One thing I will mention about WIC that has gotten lost in this discussion is that from everything I have heard, it is by far the easiest public assistance program to qualify for. Many people on it are quite poor, but many of them are not what you would consider to be in desperate situations. Let me put it this way…I do not know the folks at daycare well enough to have seen all their living situations, etc., but I can tell you that if you lined us up in the clothes we typically wear in front of the cars we drive, you sure couldn’t tell who is likely on WIC and who isn’t.
[QUOTE=jayjay]
Well…a lot of the women on WIC are teenage mothers. They’re teenage mothers at least in part because Republican/fundamentalist efforts to destroy sex education (or water it down to “Don’t do it!”) have left them without the knowledge of just HOW not to get pregnant.
[/QUOTE]
That’s all true, but there are other factors that can put a self-sustaining family into financial trouble. I was 20 when my son was born. The ex lost his job when Kid Kalhoun was 4 months old.
The OP isn’t begrudging anyone assistance or nutrition. It’s simply about the ability to get the more convenient of two nutritionally-exact products when Sarahfeena chooses not to, in order to spend the savings elsewhere.
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena]
I don’t think it’s wrong either, but the RTF formula has no nutritional benefit over the powder. If it did, I would figure out another place to cut back, as well, to be sure my kids got the best stuff.
[/QUOTE]
Well, according to some people, it does have a benefit, but even if that wasn’t true, I see nothing wrong with this tiny expense to make life easier. The government doesn’t care that they’re buying a few moments of simplicity in their lives.
[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
That’s all true, but there are other factors that can put a self-sustaining family into financial trouble. I was 20 when my son was born. The ex lost his job when Kid Kalhoun was 4 months old.
[/QUOTE]
I’d also be interested in hearing from Biggirl the reason she and her husband used WIC when her child was born.
Certainly doesn’t sound exactly like the typical, irresponsible, uhm, inner-city, teen pregancy to me.
Unless I knew the entire budget of the family, and what ‘luxuries’ were being bought (perhaps brand name breakfast cereal, as Monstro pointed out) and what is being done without, I would not ever judge a person for buying expensive baby formula.
[hijack]
[QUOTE=jayjay]
Well…a lot of the women on WIC are teenage mothers. They’re teenage mothers at least in part because Republican/fundamentalist efforts to destroy sex education (or water it down to “Don’t do it!”) have left them without the knowledge of just HOW not to get pregnant.
[/QUOTE]
Maybe it’s different where you are, but, as a person who is all for explicit and comprehensive sex ed, I think a great deal of teenage mothers are so because of the examples set for them growing up, by their own teenage mothers, etc etc. At least that’s my observation as an educator in the NE, and as a person who lives in what passes for an ‘unsavory’ part of town around here.
[/hijack]
[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
Well, according to some people, it does have a benefit, but even if that wasn’t true, I see nothing wrong with this tiny expense to make life easier. The government doesn’t care that they’re buying a few moments of simplicity in their lives.
[/QUOTE]
If I thought for one minute that all this RTF was being purchased for medically necessary reason, or because it was nutritionally superior, I would take everything I said back.
Yeah I forgot how expensive that bottled baby formula is.
But just wait until the Financial Aid Office at Ivy U hits you with an “Expected Family Contribution” of $35,000 per year while some of these other kids are getting a full ride plus a stipend.
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena]
Nah, I’d never be mad that I don’t qualify. I’m grateful that my husband and I are doing as well as we are, and I’m willing to work hard to keep it that way.
One thing I will mention about WIC that has gotten lost in this discussion is that from everything I have heard, it is by far the easiest public assistance program to qualify for. Many people on it are quite poor, but many of them are not what you would consider to be in desperate situations.
[/QUOTE]
The pre-tax income limit is $18,889 (assuming 1 means “one infant/child”) anywhere in the lower 48. Depending where you live that could be anywhere from “things are kinda tight” to “crushing poverty.” Recipient must reapply every 6 months to a year.
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena]
Nah, I’d never be mad that I don’t qualify. I’m grateful that my husband and I are doing as well as we are, and I’m willing to work hard to keep it that way.
One thing I will mention about WIC that has gotten lost in this discussion is that from everything I have heard, **it is by far the easiest public assistance program to qualify for. ** Many people on it are quite poor, but many of them are not what you would consider to be in desperate situations. Let me put it this way…I do not know the folks at daycare well enough to have seen all their living situations, etc., but I can tell you that if you lined us up in the clothes we typically wear in front of the cars we drive, you sure couldn’t tell who is likely on WIC and who isn’t.
[/QUOTE]
Agreed. http://www.fns.usda.gov/wic/howtoapply/incomeguidelines.htm shows the income guidelines. You don’t have to be living in a cardboard box to qualify.
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena]
If I thought for one minute that all this RTF was being purchased for medically necessary reason, or because it was nutritionally superior, I would take everything I said back.
[/QUOTE]
But even if it wasn’t…we’re talking personal choice here. I’m sure if we looked at everyone’s financial habits, we could find something that doesn’t make sense to us, yet we still allow people to budget their money as they see fit. Since the difference is being paid by the family, and there is little to no difference in product, then you really are begrudging them moments of convenience? Why??
One thing I will mention about WIC that has gotten lost in this discussion is that from everything I have heard, it is by far the easiest public assistance program to qualify for. Many people on it are quite poor, but many of them are not what you would consider to be in desperate situations. Let me put it this way…I do not know the folks at daycare well enough to have seen all their living situations, etc., but I can tell you that if you lined us up in the clothes we typically wear in front of the cars we drive, you sure couldn’t tell who is likely on WIC and who isn’t.
[/QUOTE]
I was a WIC baby. My parents have never been poverty-level poor, but I guess the family was poor enough for WIC, at least during the time when my folks had me and my twin. My mothers says we qualified based on income and for health reasons, since we were anemic. But we didn’t have food stamps or live in the projects. Both parents had ok jobs. The WIC stuff supplemented an already reasonable grocery budget.
My feeling is that WIC shouldn’t be just for the poorest of the poor, since good nutrition for young children can be expensive for anyone. It’s so easy to see the healthy stuff as luxuries when you’re on a limited budget, and it shouldn’t be that way. If WIC reduces sacrifices even in people who have some means, I’m all for it. I see it as a decent return for all those farm subsidies.
[QUOTE=Hello Again]
People who meet Federal guidelines for WIC don’t typically have money for convenience ANYTHING.
[/QUOTE]
One of my assistant managers here at Walgreens qualifed for WIC. His wife used to come in with their baby and “pick up her WIC” all the time.
Are you kidding? It’s part of the culture. It’s nothing to be ashamed of; it’s just another chore on Saturday night, “Gotta go get my WIC.” Had a guy come in and “get his WIC” last Sunday night, said, “Man, I almost forgot y’all closed at 9 on Sundays, I was watching the game, and she was ridin’ me, man,” he imitated savagely," ‘go get my WIC, go get my WIC’…"’
It’s just another errand for the BF to run, like sending him out on Sunday night for diapers or Kotex.
[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
But even if it wasn’t…we’re talking personal choice here. I’m sure if we looked at everyone’s financial habits, we could find something that doesn’t make sense to us, yet we still allow people to budget their money as they see fit. Since the difference is being paid by the family, and there is little to no difference in product, then you really are begrudging them moments of convenience? Why??
[/QUOTE]
I think if you are using public assistance, it’s the most ethical thing to do to get the most mileage out of it for what it’s meant to be used for. As I mentioned a post or two ago (I think in response to miss elizabeth), should that extra $2 go towards convenience, or should it go to more nutritious food for the kids?