# I pit Xbox Live **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 29, 2012, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-xbox-live/645520 "2012-12-29T21:19:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-xbox-live/645520/21 "2012-12-30T04:34:41Z")
> [@NitroPress](#): > > Exactly what added-value is Microsoft providing here? Quality customer support, responsive and fast. I had you going for a while there, hadn’t I ? ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-xbox-live/645520/22 "2012-12-30T08:06:00Z")
The truth of the matter is that Microsoft is the only gaming company that does this. It’s stupid, but whatever. Frankly, it’s your fault for not being aware of this ahead of time. One of the main advantages of the PS3, Wii and Wii U is that Sony and Nintendo have both promised to make sure their consoles could connect online for free and would always be that way, and Microsoft has always made you pay to use pretty much any online content, be that gaming or browsing or video streaming. The fact that you made it nearly to the year 2013 without ever learning this is rather sad. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-xbox-live/645520/23 "2012-12-30T09:11:30Z")
Microsoft love you long time. Five dollah. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-xbox-live/645520/24 "2012-12-30T10:33:51Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > The truth of the matter is that Microsoft is the only gaming company that does this. It’s stupid, but whatever. Frankly, it’s your fault for not being aware of this ahead of time. One of the main advantages of the PS3, Wii and Wii U is that Sony and Nintendo have both promised to make sure their consoles could connect online for free and would always be that way, and Microsoft has always made you pay to use pretty much any online content, be that gaming or browsing or video streaming. > > The fact that you made it nearly to the year 2013 without ever learning this is rather sad. Since MS is the only gaming company to do this, how would someone know this automatically? I never heard or read it discussed anywhere. Was I just supposed to assume that MS would try to screw me in a way that other gaming companies don’t? Well, OK, that’s a given. Seriously, though, if someone is going to buy a gaming console, and it’s advertised as having certain capabilities that other consoles also have, but this particular console also requires a fee for connectivity which the other consoles don’t…how is the buyer supposed to know this? ---
**Author:** ![Sierra\_Indigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Sierra\_Indigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sierra_Indigo)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-xbox-live/645520/25 "2012-12-30T10:38:52Z")
First result on a search for “Xbox live”, obviously localised due to IP address - [http://www.xbox.com/en-AU/Live/Join](http://www.xbox.com/en-AU/Live/Join) Very nice graphic there that shows what you get for free vs gold vs family pack. The phrase “caveat fucking emptor” comes to mind. You’re dropping a few hundred dollars on a console plus assorted peripherals. An hour or so’s searching online behooves any purchase over a few dollars these days if you’re not a fucking retard. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-xbox-live/645520/26 "2012-12-30T10:47:05Z")
I’m pretty sure “fucking” isn’t real latin. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-xbox-live/645520/27 "2012-12-30T11:03:25Z")
> [@Sierra\_Indigo](#): > > First result on a search for “Xbox live”, obviously localised due to IP address - [http://www.xbox.com/en-AU/Live/Join](http://www.xbox.com/en-AU/Live/Join) > > Very nice graphic there that shows what you get for free vs gold vs family pack. > > The phrase “caveat fucking emptor” comes to mind. You’re dropping a few hundred dollars on a console plus assorted peripherals. An hour or so’s searching online behooves any purchase over a few dollars these days if you’re not a fucking retard. I’m pretty sure that page wasn’t up when I was doing the research two and a half years back. I wouldn’t swear to it, but that’s something that I would have been interested in seeing. ---
**Author:** ![Sierra\_Indigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Sierra\_Indigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sierra_Indigo)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-xbox-live/645520/28 "2012-12-30T11:23:18Z")
That particular page may not have been but a consumer information page was, because I purchased an xbox 360 more than four years ago, and at that time I found a document in the box on top of the console that directed me to a page called [Account with Xbox | Xbox](http://xbox.com/live) or something similar which outlined the tiers of the xbox live service. So IOW don’t blame the company for your inability to do correct consumer research. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-xbox-live/645520/29 "2012-12-30T11:40:08Z")
The paid subscription is required to access any online features other than the Marketplace. It’s been that way since the release of the original Xbox 11 years ago. You can complain that you’re uninterested in online gaming but I’m sure you noticed going in that the 360 is a fucking gaming console. The charge existed long before they ever attached Amazon or Netflix to the service, which in my mind exist as a happy bonus for those people who already have a LIVE-enabled console in their home. The shock that Gold is required to do anything is something I haven’t seen in years (though I’m sure you could dredge up online dozens and hundreds of examples of other dopes being similarly “scammed”). ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-xbox-live/645520/30 "2012-12-30T13:40:03Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > What the hell kinda porn requires you to read anything? _Fifty Slices of Turnip_ is slowly working its way up the vanity-press erotica charts. It’s the story of Vincent Turnip, an enigmatic self-made billionaire whose dashing public persona belies his secret life as a voracious message-board sadist — well, I won’t give it away. I’m sure all the ladies reading this are getting turned on already… ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-xbox-live/645520/31 "2012-12-30T14:14:49Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I’m pretty sure that page wasn’t up when I was doing the research two and a half years back. I wouldn’t swear to it, but that’s something that I would have been interested in seeing. Oh fucking bullshit. 2.5 years ago there would have been MORE opportunities to fill your tiny little brain with that nugget of information, as every single thread on this board that even mentioned a video game console would bring that up as a point in favor of the PS3 or Wii. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-xbox-live/645520/32 "2012-12-30T17:30:16Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Frankly, it’s your fault for not being aware of this ahead of time. (LatherRinseRepeat: ) I didn’t buy the box for the streaming features. I didn’t care about the streaming features until I read a mention somewhere that the 360 streamed Amazon. I am not heartbroken or feeling cheated because MS decided to put an otherwise costless feature behind their paywall. I am merely bemused that they would play the card that way. I understand better than 999 out of 1000 how this kind of process is used to squeeze revenue from a source; it’s core to my specialty. Buying a Roku, which was the process I was in when I found out the 360 streamed Amazon, for certain values of “streamed.” Moving on now. Hope this thread conveyed new information to some Xbox buyer, somewhere at some present or future time, who hasn’t closely studied the business practices of Microsoft since 1978. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-xbox-live/645520/33 "2012-12-30T17:55:07Z")
> [@NitroPress](#): > > (LatherRinseRepeat: ) I didn’t buy the box for the streaming features. I didn’t care about the streaming features until I read a mention somewhere that the 360 streamed Amazon. I am not heartbroken or feeling cheated because MS decided to put an otherwise costless feature behind their paywall. I am merely bemused that they would play the card that way. I understand better than 999 out of 1000 how this kind of process is used to squeeze revenue from a source; it’s core to my specialty. > > Buying a Roku, which was the process I was in when I found out the 360 streamed Amazon, for certain values of “streamed.” > > Moving on now. Hope this thread conveyed new information to some Xbox buyer, somewhere at some present or future time, who hasn’t closely studied the business practices of Microsoft since 1978. I think that a lot of people don’t think of the streaming features as being behind a paywall: rather, they see them as bundled in for free with the on-line gaming access. Yes, you have to pay to game on line, but if you do, hey, bonus, streaming video apps. Since many (I suspect most) people buy an Xbox with the intent of paying for access to online gaming, it doesn’t feel like paying extra for streaming. If you had to pay a buck a month for streaming above and beyond internet access in general, then I think people would find that annoying. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-xbox-live/645520/34 "2012-12-30T18:10:18Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > _Fifty Slices of Turnip_ is slowly working its way up the vanity-press erotica charts. It’s the story of Vincent Turnip, an enigmatic self-made billionaire whose dashing public persona belies his secret life as a voracious message-board sadist — well, I won’t give it away. I’m sure all the ladies reading this are getting turned on already… Isn’t that the author of the _Hairy Pecker_ books, about the young wizard with the enormous wand? I always thought that was a poon name… ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-xbox-live/645520/35 "2012-12-30T19:55:43Z")
Serious case of _caveat emptor_ to the OP and **Lynn** and anyone else stupid enough not to know a basic fact about the features of one of the most widely purchased and reviewed consumer electronic products on the market right now. This is like someone going into a fit because of an iPad requiring you to use iTunes for certain things, it’s such a widely known thing I don’t see how anyone but a person who randomly walks into a store and bought an Xbox only half knowing what it is could possibly be confused by this. Now, why does Microsoft charge for Xbox Live? Basically because they can, simple as that. It started with the original Xbox as a way to play multiplayer games over an internet connection, and under the model of other online gateway services Microsoft wasn’t being that unreasonable to charge for access to their “matchmaking and communications system.” At the time the Nintendo GameCube and the PS2 did not have any feature like Xbox Live, so there was no direct comparison in the console market. When Xbox Live was introduced, it was the only show in town and no one really seemed to have a problem paying for it. Mind in 2002 we weren’t that far removed from AOL and similar companies charging people just to access the AOL “gateway” even if you had a separate ISP. (I can’t tell you how many older people who signed on for AOL in the original internet boom in the mid-90s who kept an active account just to check email and access the AOL software even **after** getting their internet connection through their cable or telephone company…it wasn’t easy explaining to them AOL was no longer providing any real service they should pay for.) Fast forward to 2012 and both Sony and Nintendo have competing networks out now, and they are free, but Xbox Live has _always charged_ and through inertia they have such a large core of players willing to pay for it that they can keep charging for it. It’s sort of like in the MMORPG space, almost no one is releasing subscription-fee games anymore, but Blizzard can still charge for World of Warcraft because they have 10 million subscribers and enough inertia to keep milking that cash cow for a few more years. But this isn’t pit worthy, Microsoft has deceived no one. You do have a responsibility to understand the products you buy. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-xbox-live/645520/36 "2012-12-30T20:25:06Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > I’m pretty sure “fucking” isn’t real latin. Is that why it’s extinct now? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-xbox-live/645520/37 "2012-12-30T20:27:37Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Serious case of _caveat emptor_ to the OP and **Lynn** and anyone else stupid enough not to know a basic fact about the features of one of the most widely purchased and reviewed consumer electronic products on the market right now. Yes, yes, we are subhuman and barely fit to live because we can’t discourse at endless length about the relative merits of gaming consoles, and the generation that grew up with their hands permanently curled in the holy gesture of controller-grasping shall surely come to rule the Earth. As soon as their mommies kick them out on their Cheetos-larded asses, that is. So we won’t worry too much about the revolution just yet. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-xbox-live/645520/38 "2012-12-30T20:33:02Z")
Somebody get this guy a juicebox. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-xbox-live/645520/39 "2012-12-30T20:49:40Z")
> [@NitroPress](#): > > Yes, yes, we are subhuman and barely fit to live because we can’t discourse at endless length about the relative merits of gaming consoles, and the generation that grew up with their hands permanently curled in the holy gesture of controller-grasping shall surely come to rule the Earth. No, I’ve said you’re stupid if you don’t understand the product you are buying. That has absolutely nothing to do with what generation you were born into. I was born before Sputnik was launched and when the most advanced thing in the house was a black and white TV. There is no nobility or dignity in being ignorant of technological innovations simply because they happened after your age of majority. > [@](#): > > As soon as their mommies kick them out on their Cheetos-larded asses, that is. So we won’t worry too much about the revolution just yet. Well, as a matter of fact **yes** the generation raised on video games **will inherit the earth**. I’m all for immortality but I don’t regard there as being a high likelihood we effect such a thing anytime soon. I find it amusing that in defense of your own stupidity and ignorance about video game consoles you denigrate anyone that knows anything about them, and then make some weird reference about how they can’t take over the world until their mom kicks their “Cheetos larded” ass out of the house. If someone my age can read a review of a product before I buy it, and understands ancillary fees, there is simply no excuse for people that choose not to do the same. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-xbox-live/645520/40 "2012-12-30T20:58:45Z")
You didn’t bother to read any of my posts, Martin; you’re mistaking me for the idiot who thought I was crushed because I bought a ten-year-old platform box to stream Amazon. I bought it to - _gosh, wow, how odd_ - play games on, and had no idea it was even capable of all the other shit until a Roku review mentioned it. I don’t really give a screaming, flaming fuck about what the Xbox might do for me if I buy into Microsoft’s control pavilion like the other ten million acne’d robodroids who think they’re controlling the world with the x-pad instead of electronically jacking off. Climbing up on that high, high horse because your expertise lies in the marketing-driven details of fucking \*gaming consoles \*is just too pathetic for words. I’m sitting in a room full of equipment you couldn’t find the fucking power switches on, half of which I designed myself. Your mastery of a mass-produced time-waster and brain-melter impresses me very, very, very little. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-xbox-live/645520.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-xbox-live/645520.md?page=3)