# I Pit(y) Orson Scott Card **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 8, 2012, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342 "2012-11-08T06:44:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/1 "2012-11-08T06:44:57Z")
For those of you who don’t know who he is, he’s a MORMON Sci-fi writer who has a big-budget sci-fi flick (based on his noverl Ender’s Game) coming out next year. It will probably make him slightly famous, which will be a mess in a way, because the man just doesn’t know when it’s time to SHUT THE FUCK UP. Here’s a long, Godwin-ized screed about the election: [http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2012-11-08-1.html](http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2012-11-08-1.html) I sure as shit just skimmed parts of it, but it’s pretty much par for the course. Now the man’s an ass, both for this kind of thing, and his general hatred of gays and lesbians. No question, he’s just a make-an-ass-of-yourself FESTIVAL. However, i do have a little understanding and compassion here–he was hoping that Mormonism would become mainstream, instead of the weird, misunderstood little cult that it always has been and probably will be. Romney’s loss dashed his hopes, and he was writing this out of fresh emotion. I get that. However, he’s still an ass, and he can kiss _my_ goddamned ass with his TONGUE OUT. He used to be a halfway normal human being like 15 years ago. I remember. I met him. Totally normal, nice person, easy to talk to. I don’t know what happened, but I wish that he’d have another, bigger stroke…sudden, painless, and lethal. He’s taking all the love that his less idiotic fans have had for him over the last 25 years and twisting it into confused loathing and embarrassment. I’m literally _embarrassed_ that I recommended his books to so many people over the years, even given them as gifts. I wish he were dead. he makes me sad. ---
**Author:** ![Feyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/fbc32d/32.png) [@Feyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feyrat)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/2 "2012-11-08T06:58:51Z")
I used to be a huge fan. Then I read one of his hateful screeds about gay marriage. He actually talked about attending the “wedding” (scare quotes!) of two gay friends of his, and how it was like watching two small children dress up in mommy and daddy’s clothing and pretend to be grownups. FRIENDS. Hah. I had about 25 of his books. They all went to the used book sale the next day. Once it was pointed out, his poisonous opinions on gays and god had seeped through his writing, and it was impossible to enjoy them anymore. Fuck Scott Card. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/3 "2012-11-08T07:07:02Z")
Protip: If you dislike someone and their views enough to pit them, at least provide some short quotes of what they said that angers you, so as not to unnecessarily feed traffic to their website. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/4 "2012-11-08T09:19:19Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Protip: If you dislike someone and their views enough to pit them, at least provide some short quotes of what they said that angers you, so as not to unnecessarily feed traffic to their website. Good suggestion. OSC on homosexuality: > **[The Hypocrites of Homosexuality - Orson Scott Card](http://www.nauvoo.com/library/card-hypocrites.html)** " Laws against homosexual behavior should remain on the books…to be used when necessary to send a clear message that those who flagrantly violate society’s regulation of sexual behavior cannot be permitted to remain as acceptable, equal citizens within that society." OSC on homosexual marriage: [http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2004-02-15-1.html](http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2004-02-15-1.html) "Marriage Is Already Open to Everyone. In the first place, no law in any state in the United States now or ever has forbidden homosexuals to marry. The law has never asked that a man prove his heterosexuality in order to marry a woman, or a woman hers in order to marry a man. Any homosexual man who can persuade a woman to take him as her husband can avail himself of all the rights of husbandhood under the law" He’s always been a prick, so his deep upset that a prick of similar beliefs and politics lost to a person he hates is understandable. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/5 "2012-11-08T11:52:46Z")
People take politics seriously and say a lot of stupid stuff about it. I think that’s the takeaway from all this. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/6 "2012-11-08T13:18:03Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > "Marriage Is Already Open to Everyone. > > In the first place, no law in any state in the United States now or ever has forbidden homosexuals to marry. The law has never asked that a man prove his heterosexuality in order to marry a woman, or a woman hers in order to marry a man. With Mormons, it’s especially refreshing to rebut with _Loving v Virginia_, which had a similar problem. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/7 "2012-11-08T13:53:52Z")
{Hit the wrong button for editiing the post.} ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/8 "2012-11-08T13:57:16Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > With Mormons, it’s especially refreshing to rebut with _Loving v Virginia_, which had a similar problem. Seems to me that I posted a link to that case sometime during my tenure here. And I think it’s also commonly known on this board that I’m LDS. What I am not, though, is Orson Card. I like some of his writings, dislike some of his writings, and think he should simply stick to writing fiction. When he opens his mouth on other subjects, he makes an ass out of himself. Would it surprise you to know that I have the same view of a number of other authors with whom I disagree on various points that have absolutely nothing to do with their writing career? I’d be very surprised if there isn’t at least one author you currently like with whom you disagree on politics or other social issues. Another thing: Card is not the spokesman for the LDS church, no matter how much it seems that he wishes that were the case. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/9 "2012-11-08T14:00:58Z")
Oof, that was an embarrassing read. OSC has fully drunk the Flavor Aid when he unironically refers to “the real journalists at Fox News.” Heh. Sadly, it seems Benghazi has become the new “Hillary Killed Vince Foster!” I guess they don’t realize how batshit they sound yet. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/10 "2012-11-08T14:03:21Z")
Do you disagree with same sex marriage? If so, then I feel free to throw _Loving_ in your face even if you have always supported mixed race marriages. I did say it’s refreshing to _rebut_ arguments against SSM with _Loving_, not pre emptively bring it up with Mormons any old time. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/11 "2012-11-08T14:04:41Z")
Monty, the difference here is when you use the fame you earned from one thing (books) to set yourself up on a soap box pedaling hate and fear. Plenty of authors use their new-found soap box to expound on social and political issues. OSC is just using his to show the world what a complete asshole he is, and he deserves whatever fallout comes of it. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/12 "2012-11-08T14:08:05Z")
Stupid Card. It’s totally possible to stick to your LDS faith and have personal religious objections to homosexuality, and totally not be a dick about it. I might not agree with the former stance, but as long as you follow Wheaton’s Law, we could still be friends. And that’s why I read _Schlock Mercenary_ and don’t own any OSC books anymore. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/13 "2012-11-08T14:26:12Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Seems to me that I posted a link to that case sometime during my tenure here. And I think it’s also commonly known on this board that I’m LDS. What I am not, though, is Orson Card. I like some of his writings, dislike some of his writings, and think he should simply stick to writing fiction. When he opens his mouth on other subjects, he makes an ass out of himself. Would it surprise you to know that I have the same view of a number of other authors with whom I disagree on various points that have absolutely nothing to do with their writing career? I’d be very surprised if there isn’t at least one author you currently like with whom you disagree on politics or other social issues. > > Another thing: Card is not the spokesman for the LDS church, no matter how much it seems that he wishes that were the case. I know he’s not the General Authority or anything like it. I actually know a lot of Mormons because of reading and posting on his message boards over the years, and quite a few of them are embarrassed by his hateful tone toward gays and the general political insanity he has displayed over the last 14 years or so. However, in this case, I am pitting him partially because I feel certain his Mormonism is part of why he is so angry Romney lost. And you know, that’s selfish and short-sighted of him. Not that I’m not capable of such human flaws, of course, but I think I can safely say I wouldn’t use the bully pulpit (If I had such a thing) like he does. But all that to say, I know a number of Mormons that I like as people, and find to have lots of good qualities. I’m not angry because he’s a Mormon. I’d feel similarly if he had instead been a Catholic or Independent Baptist who went off the deep end. Either way, though, I can’t ungift his books, un-make all those recommendations, etc., etc.. The man’s an embarrassment. Guess what’s even more messed up? He’ll become a lot more well-known next year, after the Ender’s Game movie comes out. Potentially millions more people will get to experience his hate-filled essays. Who knows, Fox News might even invite him to be a commentator, or at least interview him. And then I will Pit his stupid ass-y self again, like a dummy. I just need to let it go. He’s not going to change for me. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/14 "2012-11-08T14:41:47Z")
I have a hard time with him, too. I liked his books until I found this out. I can ignore a lot of political views of creators I like, but when I find out someone wants to systematically keep rights away from other human beings - rights I have! - then I lost all respect. I can marry whomever I want. OSC can marry whomever he wants. Gay people? Sorry, no cake for you. You must just sit and watch us eat cake. Hell, no. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/15 "2012-11-08T14:45:06Z")
> [@](#): > > "Marriage Is Already Open to Everyone. > > In the first place, no law in any state in the United States now or ever has forbidden homosexuals to marry. The law has never asked that a man prove his heterosexuality in order to marry a woman, or a woman hers in order to marry a man. > > Any homosexual man who can persuade a woman to take him as her husband can avail himself of all the rights of husbandhood under the law" > > He’s always been a prick, so his deep upset that a prick of similar beliefs and politics lost to a person he hates is understandable.[URL=“[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=15675418](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=15675418)”] To be fair to OSC and LDS in general, I’ve heard this argument from many people who aren’t LDS, it’s not limited to the LDS. It’s like…oh, homosexuals should not want to marry the people they are sexually attracted to. When I turn this around, and ask these people how they’d like it if they could only legally marry someone of the same sex, I get told that it’s not the same thing at all. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/16 "2012-11-08T16:28:52Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > For those of you who don’t know who he is, he’s a MORMON Sci-fi writer who has a big-budget sci-fi flick (based on his noverl Ender’s Game) coming out next year. It will probably make him slightly famous, which will be a mess in a way, because the man just doesn’t know when it’s time to SHUT THE FUCK UP. > > Here’s a long, Godwin-ized screed about the election: > > [http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2012-11-08-1.html](http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2012-11-08-1.html) > > I sure as shit just skimmed parts of it, but it’s pretty much par for the course. You should have read the whole thing. Here’s the beginning: > [@](#): > > To you newspeople at CBS, CNN, ABC, NBC. To you journalists at the New York Times, the Washington Post, at newspapers all over America. > > You did it. You won. You were able to get Barack Obama his second term. > > You knew that if you told the American people the truth, they would not have reelected this man. > > Americans don’t vote to reelect a commander-in-chief who abandons our soldiers and agents and ambassadors when they’re under enemy fire. > > But you, confident that you are much wiser than the American people, you decided we had no reason to think about this during the election. > > When Romney questioned Barack Obama’s statements about Benghazi, you shouted him down. He learned his lesson – if he made an issue of it, you would merely attack him and distract the public from Obama’s wrongdoing. > > You knew that Obama lied to cover up this culpable negligence, and then lied about lying. You had the video, CBS, which you could have aired immediately after the second debate, exposing him for the liar that he is. > > Instead you held it back until two days before the election, when other stories predominated. > > And all the rest of you – you gave it minimal mention, you played it down, you treated it as nothing, though you know that if you had caught Romney in such a lie two days before the election, you would have played that footage continuously and condemned his lies in tones of shocked outrage. > > Barack Obama is still a liar – you didn’t change that, you merely hid it. Card is dead on target with this. Of course you’re whining and bitching about HIM, rather than being outraged about Obama’s lies and the media’s complicity in those lies. And now you’ll start whining and bitching about me, because I was crass enough to point it out instead of marching along in the liberal zombie battalions. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/17 "2012-11-08T16:31:38Z")
Wait! Orson Card is famous? ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/18 "2012-11-08T16:35:21Z")
about Ender and Bean and the rest. I couldn’t find any redeeming qualities in his others, and I tried. I’ll like the 3 good books. He caught lightening in a bottle. Otherwise, he sounds like a jerk, too bad. Maybe a case of Aquired Narcissism Syndrome? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/19 "2012-11-08T16:40:06Z")
To be fair, a LOT of sci fi writers have wierd political popsitions I disagree with, it doesn’t keep me from reading their books or eating chick fil a (I no longer eat papa johns because its just not appreciably different from domino so if your gonna be an ass, then make sure your product is noticably better than an apolitical alternative). Orson Scott Card has ender’s game (all the sequels kinda sucked) and ender’s shadow, a spin off of ender’s game (all the sequels kinda sucker). None of his other books really hit the radar (they’re not bad but not top 100). ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/20 "2012-11-08T16:43:33Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > And now you’ll start whining and bitching about me, because I was crass enough to point it out instead of marching along in the liberal zombie battalions. Don’t flatter yourself. We’ll poke you because we’re easily amused. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342.md?page=2)