# I Pit(y) Orson Scott Card **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 8, 2012, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342 "2012-11-08T06:44:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2013, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/181 "2013-07-28T00:03:41Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > It’s a little like when Rush Limbaugh crossed the line, and called a woman a slut. He lost a great many listeners over that. Well, actually, the ratings drop was pretty slight. He’s doing fine, and probably will be for years to come. why wouldn’t he? H’es just saying what his listeners are already thinking. The “slut incident” is a perfect example. The same people who would stop listening to him after such a thing are the people who wouldn’t listen in the first place, pretty much. I imagine OSC’s star will climb for quite a while. Unless I miss my guess, Ender’s Game is going to be a a ginormous hit. And that doesn’t bother me, because he actually has some really obscure works that are really wonderful, like Hart’s Hope, that would make _excellent_ movies. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2013, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/182 "2013-07-28T02:44:32Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > Well, actually, the ratings drop was pretty slight. He’s doing fine, and probably will be for years to come. why wouldn’t he? H’es just saying what his listeners are already thinking. The “slut incident” is a perfect example. The same people who would stop listening to him after such a thing are the people who wouldn’t listen in the first place, pretty much. > > I imagine OSC’s star will climb for quite a while. Unless I miss my guess, Ender’s Game is going to be a a ginormous hit. I think the primary audience for both Orson Scott Card novels and serious science fiction films is pretty different from Limbaugh’s primary audience, though. While there are conservative science fiction fans, and even homophobic science fiction fans, I think science fiction fandom generally tends to attract people who have a pretty live-and-let-live attitude about personal lifestyle choices. So I suspect that Card’s views on same-sex marriage are offputting to a lot of people who would be interested in his books and adaptations of his books. Whether it’ll be offputting enough to make much difference at the box office remains to be seen, but Card’s not preaching to the choir the way Limbaugh is. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2013, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/183 "2013-07-28T03:24:51Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > I think the primary audience for both Orson Scott Card novels and serious science fiction films is pretty different from Limbaugh’s primary audience, though. While there are conservative science fiction fans, and even homophobic science fiction fans, I think science fiction fandom generally tends to attract people who have a pretty live-and-let-live attitude about personal lifestyle choices. So I suspect that Card’s views on same-sex marriage are offputting to a lot of people who would be interested in his books and adaptations of his books. Whether it’ll be offputting enough to make much difference at the box office remains to be seen, but Card’s not preaching to the choir the way Limbaugh is. While Ender’s Game, _the book_, is a sensitive story with relatively little deadly violence, the movie itself is going to have plenty of space battles. That means one of the biggest demographics is going to be 12-year-old boys…the same little monsters that call everybody “faggot” constantly on online gaming sessions. They don’t give a _shit_ about OSC’s stance on gay issues. So no, I don’t think it’s going to have a big effect on the take for Ender’s Game. If anything, the extra publicity might give it a very slight boost. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2013, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/184 "2013-07-28T04:45:45Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > While Ender’s Game, _the book_, is a sensitive story with relatively little deadly violence, the movie itself is going to have plenty of space battles. That means one of the biggest demographics is going to be 12-year-old boys…the same little monsters that call everybody “faggot” constantly on online gaming sessions. They don’t give a _shit_ about OSC’s stance on gay issues. > > So no, I don’t think it’s going to have a big effect on the take for Ender’s Game. If anything, the extra publicity might give it a very slight boost. While there have certainly been plenty of misguided Hollywood adaptations of novels, if the studio just wanted to make a big dumb space battle movie for 12 year old boys then they could have done it without paying Card for the rights to a book that’s nearly 30 years old. I would guess that they are doing an _Ender’s Game_ movie because they hope to attract a broader audience, which would include people who do care about Card’s views. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2013, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/185 "2013-07-28T05:51:41Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > Well, actually, the ratings drop was pretty slight. He’s doing fine, and probably will be for years to come. why wouldn’t he? H’es just saying what his listeners are already thinking. The “slut incident” is a perfect example. The same people who would stop listening to him after such a thing are the people who wouldn’t listen in the first place, pretty much. His ratings may or may not be fine (they probably are, there are a lot of hate full people out there), but more and more advertisers aren’t buying ad time on his shows. Apparently, [“48 of the top 50 network advertisers have “excluded Rush and Hannity” clauses in their contracts. Every major national ad agency has the same dictate.”](http://radioink.com/Article.asp?id=2649276&spid=24698) They’re not doing this out of some sense of moral outrage, of course. They’re not buying ads on Limbaugh’s show because there are a lot of people out there writing to them saying that the customer will boycott their business so long as they advertise on Limbaugh’s show. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2013, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/186 "2013-07-28T13:35:24Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > While there have certainly been plenty of misguided Hollywood adaptations of novels, if the studio just wanted to make a big dumb space battle movie for 12 year old boys then they could have done it without paying Card for the rights to a book that’s nearly 30 years old. I would guess that they are doing an _Ender’s Game_ movie because they hope to attract a broader audience, which would include people who do care about Card’s views. Maybe, but I think the movie is going to have two main audiences: 1. people who read and loved the book 2. boys ages 5-15 or so audience #2 will not care. Audience #1 has some people who will care a lot, but this will not make too big a difference either way even for audience #1. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2013, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/187 "2013-07-28T13:37:50Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > His ratings may or may not be fine (they probably are, there are a lot of hate full people out there), but more and more advertisers aren’t buying ad time on his shows. Apparently, [“48 of the top 50 network advertisers have “excluded Rush and Hannity” clauses in their contracts. Every major national ad agency has the same dictate.”](http://radioink.com/Article.asp?id=2649276&spid=24698) > > They’re not doing this out of some sense of moral outrage, of course. They’re not buying ads on Limbaugh’s show because there are a lot of people out there writing to them saying that the customer will boycott their business so long as they advertise on Limbaugh’s show. As long as people are watching/listening, ad space will sell, even if it’s just to scammy companies selling products designed to separate credulous conservative oldsters from their money. That demographic has products aimed at it just like most demographics do. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2013, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/188 "2013-07-28T21:47:01Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Some of that value is undermined when one is reading solely for pleasure. I can read stuff by the vilest of the vile, if I’m trying to learn from it. But if I’m just out to have some fun, there are some writers (and, with movies, some actors) who are just such stinkards that the pleasure is much reduced. > > Also, of course, there are politics and there are politics. We’d all pretty much laugh at someone who refused to read any book written by any Republican or by any Democrat. The difference is that Card went out of his way to express an opinion that was deeply hateful, hurtful, and offensive, an opinion that directly attacks the personhood of people I know and love. > > It’s a little like when Rush Limbaugh crossed the line, and called a woman a slut. He lost a great many listeners over that. It’s a good point about reading for pleasure versus other reasons. I’d argue there are a few authors in Science Fiction & Fantasy that someone interested in being “well read” should read regardless of whether they are huge SFF fans. I think everyone should read at least the key works of figures like Tolkien, Bradbury, Heinlein, Asimov and maybe a couple others. Obviously I don’t list Card in that grouping because I personally haven’t read him. If Card was in that grouping, I’d say people should still read him regardless of his views. But that doesn’t mean you necessarily have to buy his works, a library visit can work in that regard. Ray Bradbury appears to have been a really good guy across the board, but if all his writings existed as they did in our world and he was a hardcore racist or something really objectionable I’d say he should still be read. While he was alive though I’d say people who wanted to avoid giving him money could just borrow his books from a library instead of buying them. With a dead author I think the financial issue is less important. Not many people would agree with some of the views of 19th century authors but it’s not like we’re lining their pockets when we buy reprints of their books. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/189 "2013-07-30T09:45:19Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > As long as people are watching/listening, ad space will sell, even if it’s just to scammy companies selling products designed to separate credulous conservative oldsters from their money. That demographic has products aimed at it just like most demographics do. [Tell it to Cumulus Media](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/shock-n-roll-radio-djs-rush-limbaugh-and-sean-hannity-dropped-after-ad-boycott-8737241.html): > [@](#): > > In a major blow to their broadcasting dominance, the second-largest radio station owner in the US is said to be dropping both Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity from its airwaves. > > According to a report by Politico, Cumulus Media has decided not to renew contracts with the two talk radio titans at the end of 2013, meaning their radio shows will vanish from more than 40 of its stations across the US. > [@](#): > > Cumulus chief executive Lew Dickey attributed $2.4m (£1.56m) losses to the “syndicated talk segment” to which Limbaugh and Hannity belong. Those “scammy companies” may be profitable enough for small-scale advertising but they’re not big enough to replace the major corporations who are excluding Limbaugh and Hannity from their ad buys. And if the syndicates can get bigger ad money by replacing those shows with less controversial ones, why shouldn’t they? And of course if Cumulus’s move proves successful you can bet the other syndicates will be watching. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/190 "2013-07-30T11:17:39Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > And if the syndicates can get bigger ad money by replacing those shows with less controversial ones, why shouldn’t they? And of course if Cumulus’s move proves successful you can bet the other syndicates will be watching. The story I read said that Cumulus is likely to replace Limbaugh and Hannity’s programs with programs that Cumulus itself owns, which include Michael Savage and Mike Huckabee. Not quite less controversial, I’d say. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/191 "2013-08-04T15:16:28Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > [Tell it to Cumulus Media](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/shock-n-roll-radio-djs-rush-limbaugh-and-sean-hannity-dropped-after-ad-boycott-8737241.html):Those “scammy companies” may be profitable enough for small-scale advertising but they’re not big enough to replace the major corporations who are excluding Limbaugh and Hannity from their ad buys. And if the syndicates can get bigger ad money by replacing those shows with less controversial ones, why shouldn’t they? And of course if Cumulus’s move proves successful you can bet the other syndicates will be watching. I doubt it’s going to hit Rush’s bottom line too much, but that is evidence that his star is no longer rising. However, if he’s being replaced by Michael Savage, there’s no real change as far as the total amount of BS, lies, and spin that will be broadcast. We have Ronald Reagan to thank for these guys. His appointed crony at the FCC repealed the “Fairness Doctrine”, which paved the way for Rush and the other trolls. Jesus, the elderly are unskeptical when it comes to their favorite news sources. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/192 "2013-08-14T21:15:50Z")
Well, if you were on the fence about this guy before, consider that he’s too fucking stupid to keep his mouth shut when he’s got a movie based on one of his books coming out and there’s already a lot of controversy and boycott talk… > **[Orson Scott Card Worries About Obama Turning "Urban Gangs" Into His Personal...](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2013/08/orson-scott-card-worries-about-obama-turning-urban-gangs-into-his-personal-police-force.html)** > > The controversy over Orson Scott Card's opposition to gay marriage appears to have simmered down. Maybe it'll kick up again as the Ender's Game... Sure, sure, Obama is going to use street gangs as his personal police force. :rolleyes: Sir, you either need to stop taking the drugs, or start taking the drugs. But somewhere along the line, drugs are involved in this process. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/193 "2013-08-14T23:06:32Z")
This is something Card posted on his blog a couple months ago. And yeah, he spins it as a “what if”? He doesn’t claim it’s going to happen. Just that the very plausibility of it proves how terrifying Obama and his supporters are. > [@Orson Scott Card](#): > > Will these things happen? Of course not. This was an experiment in fictional thinking. > > But it sure sounds plausible, doesn’t it? Because, like a good fiction writer, I made sure this scenario fit the facts we already have – the way Obama already acts, the way his supporters act, and the way dictators have come to power in republics in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/194 "2013-08-14T23:28:42Z")
David Gerrold is gay. He wrote a book “When Harlie Was One” as I recall, which was pretty good. OSC is a crazy, right-wing homophobic conspiracy theorist. I really liked the book Ender’s Game and read most of the sequels. FWIW, I never picked up on any themes regarding sexual orientation, but I tend to read these types of books without bothering to look for much subtext. I’m not planning to see the movie, because too many Heinlein failures, and \*I, Robot \* ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/195 "2013-08-14T23:46:02Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > OSC is a crazy, right-wing homophobic conspiracy theorist. And yet, he at one time identified as a Democrat—I don’t know whether he still does, but he’s said so much since the [2002 cite](http://www.hatrack.com/cgi-bin/print_friendly.cgi?page=/osc/reviews/everything/2002-12-16.shtml) I managed to find that’s pro-Bush and anti-Obama that I find it hard to believe. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/196 "2013-08-15T00:12:31Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > This is something Card posted on his blog a couple months ago. > > And yeah, he spins it as a “what if”? He doesn’t claim it’s going to happen. Just that the very plausibility of it proves how terrifying Obama and his supporters are. Sounds like OSC is “just asking questions”. Typical coward floating his ideas by, but too afraid to own them. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/197 "2013-08-15T13:11:22Z")
I was bored yesterday, so I made an OSC decision tree. > **[Gamera Vs.](https://candid-gamera.tumblr.com/post/58265806353/orson-scott-card-a-response-guide)** > > I'm not either, but Card's been particularly odious. I think his "Please tolerate my intolerance so the movie of my book will make money for me" plea was the last straw for me. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/198 "2013-08-15T19:06:56Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > I was bored yesterday, so I made an OSC decision tree. > > [Gamera Vs., Orson Scott Card : A Response Guide](http://candid-gamera.tumblr.com/post/58265806353/orson-scott-card-a-response-guide) Awesome. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/199 "2013-08-15T20:06:48Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Awesome. 😃 Always pleased to meet with Miller’s approval! And always pleased to play with MS Paint. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/200 "2013-08-15T23:12:24Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > I was bored yesterday, so I made an OSC decision tree. > > [Gamera Vs., Orson Scott Card : A Response Guide](http://candid-gamera.tumblr.com/post/58265806353/orson-scott-card-a-response-guide) I do not have the necessary equipment to do this, as I’m female. May I throw a noxious (but non toxic) liquid at him instead? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342.md?page=11)