# I Pit(y) Orson Scott Card **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 8, 2012, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342 "2012-11-08T06:44:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/81 "2012-11-09T19:59:37Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Once someone retreats into the right-wingosphere fantasy cocoon, they forget that reality exists, and get pissed off if you try to unplug them from the Matrix. Nice metaphor. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/82 "2012-11-10T05:50:38Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > I believe he’s also one of those anti-gay writers who justifies prohibitions against homosexual behavior by saying that if it were okay for men to fuck men, then men would never fuck women and the species would end. Which pretty much says “closet case” to me, because wtf? IMHO, yes, he is attracted to men. I could be wrong, but…how many rabidly anti-gay activists, pastors, and politicians have to get caught…being gay…before we stop being so gullible? I think he likes the ladies, too, though. I remember an article where he mentions enjoying Playboy. However, he also mentions that he finds the more hardcore porn pics that show vaginas in close-up to be a little nauseating, though, so… Yeah. Massive man-lover. He’s sucking cock at the rest stop. Swallowing, the whole bit. OMG, that was so fun. I’ve been wanting to accuse him of that on his website for _years_, but didn’t want to violate the TOS there. Oh, that felt _great_! LOL I literally LOL’d after I typed that. Loudly. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/83 "2012-11-10T06:00:28Z")
And how does that make you feel? ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/84 "2012-11-10T14:21:37Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > To be fair, a LOT of sci fi writers have wierd political popsitions I disagree with, it doesn’t keep me from reading their books or eating chick fil a (I no longer eat papa johns because its just not appreciably different from domino so if your gonna be an ass, then make sure your product is noticably better than an apolitical alternative). Hear, hear. I read some of OSC’s books and I enjoy them (not the Mormons in Space or Magic Mormons in Alternate Reality America series). I still think that _Night Mare_ is a good book, even though I think Piers Anthony is a general perv. I enjoy the \*fiction \*that they write. I do not pay attention to the nonfiction. In fact, the only nonfiction I’ll read from a fantasy/sf writer is [Robin McKinley’s blog](http://robinmckinleysblog.com/), and that’s mainly because she puts up cute dog pictures and taught me the proper use of the word “ratbag.” ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/85 "2012-11-10T15:05:14Z")
> [@SpazCat](#): > > I still think that _Night Mare_ is a good book, even though I think Piers Anthony is a general perv. I’ve always wondered if prolific authors deliberately drop in specific references to things they are into because they want attention for it, or if a particular quirk is subconsciously expressed. I mean, does Anthony want to be known as the Golden Showers guy, or was he just doodling along aimlessly and didn’t realize he’s created the same scenario in other novels? Do editors dare mention it? Cause I’m pretty sure if I drink a Big Gulp and shift from foot to foot while waiting in his autograph line, I’ll get his attention. ---
**Author:** ![BunnyTVS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BunnyTVS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BunnyTVS)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/86 "2012-11-11T02:53:27Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > IMHO, yes, he is attracted to men. I could be wrong, but…how many rabidly anti-gay activists, pastors, and politicians have to get caught…being gay…before we stop being so gullible? > > I think he likes the ladies, too, though. I’ve started to wonder if that is the reason so many of the religious figureheads feel that homosexuality is a _choice_. I now think that these folks are homosexual by nature but _choose_ to live a heterosexual lifestyle, due to peer pressure and religious/cultural indoctrination.. They reinforce their choice by being the most vehement voices against homosexuality, which leads to their promotion amongst the “faithfull”. Many of them can’t keep up this life they’ve chosen and slip, from time to time, into their natural proclivities. Every time this happens it reinforces their hatred of their “weakness” at falling for this “sinfull” side, making their vitriol even stronger. This leads to a feedback loop which ends in the stereotypical gotcha moment in a gents toilet. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/87 "2012-11-11T04:13:39Z")
> [@BunnyTVS](#): > > I’ve started to wonder if that is the reason so many of the religious figureheads feel that homosexuality is a _choice_. I now think that these folks are homosexual by nature but _choose_ to live a heterosexual lifestyle, due to peer pressure and religious/cultural indoctrination.. They reinforce their choice by being the most vehement voices against homosexuality, which leads to their promotion amongst the “faithfull”. > > Many of them can’t keep up this life they’ve chosen and slip, from time to time, into their natural proclivities. Every time this happens it reinforces their hatred of their “weakness” at falling for this “sinfull” side, making their vitriol even stronger. This leads to a feedback loop which ends in the stereotypical gotcha moment in a gents toilet. I think you pretty much summed it up. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/88 "2012-11-11T10:05:34Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > I’m literally _embarrassed_ that I recommended his books to so many people over the years, even given them as gifts. Stupid. The artist and his works are two separate subjects. Many artists that have been complete fuckheads have produced admirable works of art. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/89 "2012-11-11T13:40:29Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Stupid. The artist and his works are two separate subjects. Many artists that have been complete fuckheads have produced admirable works of art. As you say, the artist and the work are two different subject. I think [this individual](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Chester_Minor)is a good example. I don’t think using the OED is akin to supporting murder. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/90 "2012-11-11T18:59:32Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Card can, of course, cite as a positive example the good work along those lines done people of Illinois back in the 1840s. Not effectively enough – some of the deviants got away alive – but they tried. Ooooo… _burn_. 😛 Well played, **Steve**. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/91 "2012-11-11T20:37:03Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > As you say, the artist and the work are two different subject. I think [this individual](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Chester_Minor) is a good example. I don’t think using the OED is akin to supporting murder. Check and mate. ---
**Author:** ![Feyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/fbc32d/32.png) [@Feyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feyrat)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/92 "2012-11-12T06:23:24Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Stupid. The artist and his works are two separate subjects. Many artists that have been complete fuckheads have produced admirable works of art. Except, in this case, they are NOT two separate subjects. Card’s biases and beliefs can be seen clearly tainting quite a lot of his work. It’s impossible to unsee. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/93 "2012-11-12T06:34:05Z")
I’ll bite. How is his stance on same-sex marriage evident in, say, _Ender’s Game_ or _Speaker for the Dead_? ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/94 "2012-11-12T13:24:27Z")
> [@Feyrat](#): > > Except, in this case, they are NOT two separate subjects. Card’s biases and beliefs can be seen clearly tainting quite a lot of his work. It’s impossible to unsee. Just stay away from the Alvin Maker and Homecoming series and everything written after the turn of the century and you won’t be exposed to his horrible, horrible opinions. Pays to be selective. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/95 "2012-11-12T14:54:42Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Stupid. The artist and his works are two separate subjects. Many artists that have been complete fuckheads have produced admirable works of art. I almost feel like I’ve recommended Wagner to Jews, for instance. Did you know that Israeli orchestras almost never play Wagner, because of his anti-Semitic opinions? ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/96 "2012-11-12T15:33:13Z")
Unfortunately, having creative talent and getting the breaks needed to make it public does not mean you a nice person. Some creative types I personally know are total assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/97 "2012-11-12T17:04:52Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > I almost feel like I’ve recommended Wagner to Jews, for instance. Did you know that Israeli orchestras almost never play Wagner, because of his anti-Semitic opinions? Which is kind of inconsistent, because plenty of other composers that the Israeli Philharmonic doesn’t boycott were also openly anti-Semitic. The [long-standing but now-starting-to-crumble Wagner ban](http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/07/25/uk-israel-germany-music-idINLNE76O02420110725) is largely a historical artefact of Hitler’s personal enthusiasm for Wagner, rather than a reasoned and consistent position against anti-Semitism among artists. Consequently, many Jews just reflexively associate Wagner with Nazism, and the Israeli state media’s _de facto_ ban on Wagner’s music reinforces that perception. ---
**Author:** ![Feyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/fbc32d/32.png) [@Feyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feyrat)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/98 "2012-11-12T17:34:30Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I’ll bite. How is his stance on same-sex marriage evident in, say, _Ender’s Game_ or _Speaker for the Dead_? Do you understand the words “QUITE A LOT”? That doesn’t mean EVERY book. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/99 "2012-11-12T17:48:41Z")
> [@Feyrat](#): > > Card’s biases and beliefs can be seen clearly tainting quite a lot of his work. It’s impossible to unsee. > [@Monty](#): > > I’ll bite. How is his stance on same-sex marriage evident in, say, _Ender’s Game_ or _Speaker for the Dead_? > [@Feyrat](#): > > Do you understand the words “QUITE A LOT”? > > That doesn’t mean EVERY book. Okay, which ones? As someone who’s read quite a few of Card’s novels, but none recently, I’d be interested if someone could provide specific examples of how & where his fiction is tainted by his personal beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/100 "2012-11-12T22:48:13Z")
I think the issue may be more that purchasing his work may allow him to circulate his opinions more effectively since he’s still alive. I find it completely bizarre that people still listen to Chris Brown, as a comparison. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342.md?page=6)