# I Pit(y) Orson Scott Card **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 8, 2012, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342 "2012-11-08T06:44:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/121 "2012-11-29T03:55:53Z")
It seems to be a matter of degree, IMHO. The man contributed a lot to the work in question. Using said work does not mean that one supports the other ativities in which the man engaged. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/122 "2012-11-29T04:11:32Z")
True enough. ---
**Author:** ![anya\_marie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@anya\_marie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anya_marie)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/123 "2012-11-30T17:59:28Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > That’s basically a kinder, high-tech version of making a castrato. I still think it’s wrong. I think it’s laziness on the part of teachers and crap writing by OSC. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/124 "2012-11-30T18:02:31Z")
You think it’s wrong in that you wouldn’t do it in real life or in that you don’t think such a thing should ever appear in fiction? ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/125 "2012-11-30T18:10:53Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Seems to me that I posted a link to that case sometime during my tenure here. And I think it’s also commonly known on this board that I’m LDS. What I am not, though, is Orson Card. I like some of his writings, dislike some of his writings, and think he should simply stick to writing fiction. When he opens his mouth on other subjects, he makes an ass out of himself. Would it surprise you to know that I have the same view of a number of other authors with whom I disagree on various points that have absolutely nothing to do with their writing career? I’d be very surprised if there isn’t at least one author you currently like with whom you disagree on politics or other social issues. > > Another thing: Card is not the spokesman for the LDS church, no matter how much it seems that he wishes that were the case. This. I am LDS and think this guy is an ass too. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/126 "2012-11-30T18:32:38Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > The Mormon indoctrination against gays seems to be \*\*really \*\*thorough and pervasive. I’ve known plenty of Christians who changed from being \*strongly \*anti-gay to being generally accepting, but never a Mormon. I used to be friends with a Mormon and, while he was generally a nice guy and very anti-racism, he couldn’t shake off the absolute truth that gay = hell. Maybe it’s because Mormonism is so monolithic and Christianity is so diverse, I dunno. What? Never, ever never? You don’t know many Mormons then. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/127 "2012-11-30T20:59:07Z")
There was a short story OSC wrote that was the most blatant “doth protest too much” ever when someone mistakes him for gay and he assures the guy he’s not “weird”, does anyone know what I’m talking about? I’ve forever considered him a closet case after that. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/128 "2012-11-30T21:05:53Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > What? Never Well, hardly ever. [sub]my love of show tunes is manifesting more and more lately[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![anya\_marie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@anya\_marie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anya_marie)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2012, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/129 "2012-12-01T09:55:39Z")
In real life I\*\*\* cannot sing \*\*\*and it’s shitty writing. I wouldn’t take a drug that would let me sing if it would render me sterile. What appears in fiction is not anything I can help. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2012, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/130 "2012-12-01T12:26:08Z")
What exactly is shitty writing? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2012, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/131 "2012-12-01T13:07:10Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > I sure as shit just skimmed parts of it, but it’s pretty much par for the course. Then shame on you for writing from ignorance. > [@](#): > > I wish he were dead. he makes me sad. Shame on you. You live in a country that has freedom of speech. That means that he has the right to say them, and you have the responsibility not just to let him say them but defend his right to say them. Freedom of speech is a most precious thing, one which many people to this day do not know. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2012, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/132 "2012-12-01T23:36:42Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Then shame on you for writing from ignorance. > > Shame on you. You live in a country that has freedom of speech. That means that he has the right to say them, and you have the responsibility not just to let him say them but defend his right to say them. Freedom of speech is a most precious thing, one which many people to this day do not know. The fact is, what he does skates up to the line of shouting “fire!” in a crowded theater, which _isn’t_ protected speech. I read about a preacher in Sweden who did 30 days in jail this year for preaching anti-gay hate. As far as writing from ignorance, I’ve probably read more of his fiction and non-fiction than anybody on this board. It’s all been a giant waste, too. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2012, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/133 "2012-12-02T00:17:52Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > The fact is, what he does skates up to the line of shouting “fire!” in a crowded theater, which _isn’t_ protected speech. What rubbish. I find Card’s statements on this issue reprehensible, but this doesn’t pass the straight face test. Quartz is right. If you believe in protecting free speech, then you believe in protecting the speech that offends you the most. Otherwise free speech has no meaning. ---
**Author:** ![eulalia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eulalia/32/457_2.png) [@eulalia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eulalia)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2012, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/134 "2012-12-02T02:04:55Z")
> [@SpazCat](#): > > Hear, hear. I read some of OSC’s books and I enjoy them (not the Mormons in Space or Magic Mormons in Alternate Reality America series). I still think that _Night Mare_ is a good book, even though I think Piers Anthony is a general perv. I enjoy the \*fiction \*that they write. I do not pay attention to the nonfiction. In fact, the only nonfiction I’ll read from a fantasy/sf writer is [Robin McKinley’s blog](http://robinmckinleysblog.com/), and that’s mainly because she puts up cute dog pictures and taught me the proper use of the word “ratbag.” I have to recommend [John Scalzi’s blog](http://whatever.scalzi.com/2006/09/13/clearly-you-people-thought-i-was-kidding/) (link to one of my favorite entries). Back on topic, I liked some of Card’s stuff years ago, but it got too repetitive so I quit reading it. On the other hand, Harlan Ellison is a notorious jerk but I will read any of his fiction because it’s good stuff. I just don’t read anything of his that’s not fiction. ---
**Author:** ![eulalia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eulalia/32/457_2.png) [@eulalia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eulalia)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2012, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/135 "2012-12-02T02:11:54Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Then shame on you for writing from ignorance. > > Shame on you. You live in a country that has freedom of speech. That means that he has the right to say them, and you have the responsibility not just to let him say them but defend his right to say them. Freedom of speech is a most precious thing, one which many people to this day do not know. He has a right to say it, and everyone else has the right to express how they feel about what he says. Who is trying to take away that freedom? All I see is people calling an ass an ass. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2012, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/136 "2012-12-02T02:20:19Z")
Wishing death on someone so he could no longer exercise his freedom of speech seems awfully close to desiring to end that person’s freedom of speech. ---
**Author:** ![eulalia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eulalia/32/457_2.png) [@eulalia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eulalia)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2012, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/137 "2012-12-02T04:12:04Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Wishing death on someone so he could no longer exercise his freedom of speech seems awfully close to desiring to end that person’s freedom of speech. There’s a huge difference between feeling that you wish someone had died before they became unrecognizably deranged and being sad about that (which is what the OP actually said) and wishing to curtail their freedom of speech. It’s apparently because he used to admire the man that he feels so much anguish about the lunatic rant. I don’t think this means he actually wants the man dead. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/138 "2013-07-11T15:13:29Z")
I don’t usually like to bump older threads, but this is only a few months old and the bump not worth another thread. Card’s been in the news this week for holding a sort of olive branch to people threatening to boycott _Ender’s Game_ because of him. The statement in its entirety: > [@](#): > > Ender’s Game is set more than a century in the future and has nothing to do with political issues that did not exist when the book was written in 1984. > > With the recent Supreme Court ruling, the gay marriage issue becomes moot. The Full Faith and Credit clause of the Constitution will, sooner or later, give legal force in every state to any marriage contract recognized by any other state. > > Now it will be interesting to see whether the victorious proponents of gay marriage will show tolerance toward those who disagreed with them when the issue was still in dispute. > > Orson Scott Card I had not intended to see _Ender’s Game_ anyway and it has nothing to do with OSC- it just doesn’t appeal to me. I also don’t think a boycott by gays/gay allies is going to sink it if it’s good enough, and I think the only reason Card made any statement is probably at the request of the studio (who probably also doesn’t expect to be financially hurt by any boycott but recognizes a great opportunity for free publicity when they see it and this was less icky than publicity over why the kids aren’t running around naked half the time like they are in the novel). That said, while Card has my permission to go fuck himself of course, I love the increasing use of “criticizing my irrational bigotry is bigotry” defense the religious fanatics are increasingly using. One of my favorite factoids about Card is his reverence for his his g-g-grandmother, Zina. She was ordered to leave her husband, Henry Jacobs, with whom she had a child, and marry Joseph Smith as one of his many secret polygamous spouses; when he was murdered she returned to her husband, whereupon she was ordered- again- in spite of being pregnant by her husband- again- to leave him and marry- again- the Mormon Prophet as one of umpteen secret polygamous spouses, the Prophet this time being Brigham Young. Zina and Brigham had a daughter, also named Zina, who was Card’s great grandmother. (Her first and only legal husband, Henry Jacobs, pined for her the rest of his life, but remained a devout Mormon; Zina made a sad comment about how women just had to realize that marriage wasn’t something they did for their own happiness.) Card has written a novel about her and named one of his daughters for this ancestor, this adulterous or bigamous bride of two polygamists who lied about being married to her (Brigham Young eventually came out as a polygamist after Utah was settled and secure, but til then he- and Joseph Smith always- publicly denied polygamy). Of course if the current Mormon president Thomas Munson ordered a woman to leave her husband and be his plural wife he would be excommunicated and so would she, because God has changed his mind about what the ideal nature of marriage should be. However, per Card, gay marriage is just weird and needs to be outlawed and a revolution started if necessary because it’s against social norms and all that’s right and nobody should have the right to practice a form of marriage that offends so many people. Until, at least, such time as God changes his mind about what’s allowed in earthly marriage again, which, per Card and the Mormon Church, God is wont to do. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/139 "2013-07-11T15:27:57Z")
A hijack perhaps, but, do writers often get points in movies? I can understand a JK Rowling or Dan Brown negotiating them, but I would doubt even most bestselling writers would have that kind of clout. The reason I was wondering is that the best practical way for Card to minimize damage to the movie by the threatened boycott (which, again, I don’t anticipate being that great) would be to say “I’ve already been paid for my participation in the movie, so it doesn’t affect me one way or the other if you see the movie or not”. But of course that’s only if it’s true, which I assumed it would be. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/140 "2013-07-11T15:34:29Z")
Sampiro - he’d still profit from the increased sales of his books, which will certainly happen if the movie is a success. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342.md?page=8)