# I Pit(y) Orson Scott Card **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 8, 2012, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342 "2012-11-08T06:44:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/141 "2013-07-11T15:43:05Z")
I’m neither surprised nor placated by his response. I’ve extended no olive branch to racists. I see no reason why I should do so to homophobes. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/142 "2013-07-11T16:06:05Z")
This too: “Now it will be interesting to see whether the victorious proponents of gay marriage will show tolerance toward those who disagreed with them when the issue was still in dispute.” Oh, nice. So the bigots and the homophobes can say what they want, but the gays and the gay supporters, well, they’d better just rise above and be respectful and mannerly, and not hold even a teensy bit of resentment towards the people who wanted to deny them rights. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/143 "2013-07-11T16:07:19Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I’m neither surprised nor placated by his response. I’ve extended no olive branch to racists. I see no reason why I should do so to homophobes. You could at least be kind enough to slap them around with one. When will the bigotry against homophobes and racists ever end? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/144 "2013-07-11T16:08:49Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > However, per Card, gay marriage is just weird and needs to be outlawed and a revolution started if necessary Has Card said anything to the effect of “a revolution started if necessary”? In the remarks you quoted, it sounded to me like he was conceding (“Oh well, we lost; it’s gonna happen anyway, even though I’m against it.”) ---
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/145 "2013-07-11T16:25:17Z")
The tone of [this article](http://www.avclub.com/articles/enders-game-author-orson-scott-card-issues-plea-fo,99915/) fully encapsulates my feelings about Orson Scott Card. What a douche. ---
**Author:** ![Aizle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Aizle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aizle)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/146 "2013-07-11T16:33:57Z")
I’m with Inner Stickler in that I’m neither surprised or moved by his appeal. Frankly I think he’s concerned for his pocketbook and nothing more. Really the only thing that has me torn about seeing it is that I’m a big Harrison Ford fan. And even with that I’m torn between wanting to see it for him and disappointed in him for working on it and supporting OSC in some way. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/147 "2013-07-11T16:37:08Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Has Card said anything to the effect of “a revolution started if necessary”? [Yes.](http://laist.com/2008/08/01/orson_scott_card_scifi_writer_will.php) ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/148 "2013-07-11T16:37:53Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Sampiro - he’d still profit from the increased sales of his books, which will certainly happen if the movie is a success. IMDB lists him as a producer, so he’ll make money from the flick. And yes, he called for the violent overthrow of the US government here: [http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700245157/State-job-is-not-to-redefine-marriage.html?pg=all](http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700245157/State-job-is-not-to-redefine-marriage.html?pg=all) > [@Orson Scott Card homophobic rant](#): > > Because when government is the enemy of marriage, then the people who are actually creating successful marriages have no choice but to change governments, by whatever means is made possible or necessary. > > … > Biological imperatives trump laws. American government cannot fight against marriage and hope to endure. If the Constitution is defined in such a way as to destroy the privileged position of marriage, it is that insane Constitution, not marriage, that will die. Hateful incoherent wing nut. After the tsunami of crap he’s said about SSM his non-apology is a drop in the ocean. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/149 "2013-07-11T16:42:20Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Has Card said anything to the effect of “a revolution started if necessary”? In the remarks you quoted, it sounded to me like he was conceding (“Oh well, we lost; it’s gonna happen anyway, even though I’m against it.”) Yep. [From this](http://www.deseretnews.com/article/print/700245157/State-job-is-not-to-redefine-marriage.html): > [@](#): > > Because when government is the enemy of marriage, then the people who are actually creating successful marriages have no choice but to change governments, by whatever means is made possible or necessary. That essay also includes this line that I consider a gem considering Card’s genealogy and devout adherence to his church (and the fact that Zina Huntingdon Jacobs Smith Jacobs Young’s oldest son was of dubious paternity until DNA testing of descendants proved it was not Joseph Smith’s- [cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zina_D._H._Young#Marriages_and_children)). > [@](#): > > Husbands need to have the whole society agree that when they marry, their wives are off limits to all other males. He has a right to trust that all his wife’s children would be his. I don’t believe that all homophobes are closeted homosexuals, but it wouldn’t surprise me in the least to learn that Card is. He takes this shit way too seriously for somebody who is unaffected by it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/150 "2013-07-11T16:48:14Z")
“Your marriages are recognized in 11 states and by the feds if you live in those states. What more do you people want?” ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/151 "2013-07-11T16:53:07Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I don’t believe that all homophobes are closeted homosexuals, but it wouldn’t surprise me in the least to learn that Card is. He takes this shit way too seriously for somebody who is unaffected by it. He also writes a whole hell of a lot of stuff in men’s showers/baths and not much in the women’s for somebody who’s supposedly not. Also, it strikes me there’s a fair amount of physical bullying by larger, brutish muscular fellows on smaller, weaker, more intellectual targets in his books, sometimes tied to those bath scenes. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/152 "2013-07-11T18:44:55Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I don’t believe that all homophobes are closeted homosexuals, but it wouldn’t surprise me in the least to learn that Card is. He takes this shit way too seriously for somebody who is unaffected by it. I’ve thought Card was a closet case once I read the later **Seventh Son** books. The first was just incredibly awsome, but as the series progressed, the GQ\* of the noves goes past the GQ of that Tom of Finland guy’s drawings. Alvin Maker is this perfect godlike man who runs around with a pack of manly men who worship him. And as the series progresses the unspoken homoeroticism gets…well…yuck. I kept wanting to say “Just go have sex, already, you whiny closet-cases! Geez.” It’s been years since I read 'em but there’s a character “Mike Fink” (based on the tall tales guy) who’s so obviously, pathetically in love with Alvin that it’s a little sickening (not because it’s ick-gay, but because this tough-as-nails riverboat captain who can wrestle tornadoes is talking about Alvin like…like Jan (Marsha?) Brady talked about Davy Jones in that one Brady Bunch ep…but with less dignity and restraint.) Even the narrator has a hard-on for Alvin: Alvin is always right, he’s always THE CENTER of attention, his looks are described detail, etc. Seriously–I read them before I read Card’s troglodytic opinions on GLBT issues and I was wondering what his orientation was. \*Gayness Quotient. I just invented this scale. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/153 "2013-07-11T18:54:30Z")
What units does it use? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/154 "2013-07-11T18:58:05Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > What units does it use? Huh huh… you said _unit_. I suggest milifabs. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/155 "2013-07-11T19:39:17Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > I’ve thought Card was a closet case once I read the later **Seventh Son** books. Wait, Card wrote the Seventh Son books? Goddamnitsomuch. I’d never heard of them until last night when I saw a trailer for a movie staring Jeff Bridges. Was thinking I might want to see that and look for the books. Not now. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/156 "2013-07-11T19:52:18Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I’m neither surprised nor placated by his response. I’ve extended no olive branch to racists. I see no reason why I should do so to homophobes. Even if homophobes, generally, deserved an olive branch (which they don’t), OSC certainly does not unless and until he comes up with an actual apology rather than a pathetic whine demanding that people stop being so mean as to remember that he was in the wrong or (gasp!) to suggest that he man up and admit to being in the wrong. ---
**Author:** ![mozchron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mozchron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mozchron)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/157 "2013-07-11T20:15:27Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Wait, Card wrote the Seventh Son books? Goddamnitsomuch. I’d never heard of them until last night when I saw a trailer for a movie staring Jeff Bridges. Was thinking I might want to see that and look for the books. Not now. [Relax, its based on a different book series (not by Card).](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seventh_Son_(film)) ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/158 "2013-07-11T21:01:28Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > A hijack perhaps, but, do writers often get points in movies? I can understand a JK Rowling or Dan Brown negotiating them, but I would doubt even most bestselling writers would have that kind of clout. Terry Brooks once said that having your books adapted for a movie is like having your children kidnapped by a cult. He might have been quoting someone else, but there’s truth in it anyway. As for OSC, well bless his li’l heart. That’s all I can say. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/159 "2013-07-11T23:15:20Z")
> [@mozchron](#): > > [Relax, its based on a different book series (not by Card).](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seventh_Son_(film)) Oh thank you! ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342/160 "2013-07-12T01:29:44Z")
A surprisingly un-kneejerky [article](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrew-losowsky/should-you-boycott-enders_b_3575542.html?utm_hp_ref=books)about this very topic was on Huffpo today, oddly enough. I think regardless of whether people boycott the film or not, this has certainly let a much wider swathe of the population become aware that OSC holds some pretty nasty opinions. I have to hope that’s a good thing. Also, that statement he made is horrid. It makes me [think](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WoundedGazelleGambit)of [this](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlayingTheVictimCard). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-y-orson-scott-card/640342.md?page=9)