# I pit you guys... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 19, 2009, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-guys/493603 "2009-04-19T08:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-guys/493603/41 "2009-04-19T20:36:05Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > Well, I’m not going anywhere, don’t worry…🆒 Before, I just rolled my eyes at your parting words. Now I just think you’re an idiot for playing games. Politics don’t enter into it. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-guys/493603/42 "2009-04-19T20:47:52Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > gonzomax, in this thread. But he was quickly countered with the “but you’re a dumbass” argument. Who says there’s no debate on this board? 😉 For the record, I’m not saying that anyone who suggests that the board leans right is a dumbass (although I think they’re wrong). I called **gonzomax** a dumbass because he has consistently shown that he is over his head in many of the threads in which he participates. Just wanted to point that out in case someone accuses me of stereotyping. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-guys/493603/43 "2009-04-19T20:51:54Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > They may not wear the boots, but please don’t us “legitimate” “news” and “Fox” in the same sentence. Give me a break ☹ Okay - why? Honest question…I just don’t how Fox is a water-carrier for the right. I don’t see it, and I listen to all types of media. This is an accepted truth around here, and I don’t know why. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-guys/493603/44 "2009-04-19T20:56:18Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Before, I just rolled my eyes at your parting words. Now I just think you’re an idiot for playing games. > Politics don’t enter into it. My OP was not intended as a “Farewell Cruel Board” message, but in re-reading it with an eye to that, I concede it could look that way. But, it wasn’t meant to be that. I find most of those types of OPs to be the height of douche-baggery, since, really, who cares? I guess I was just hoping to wag my finger at the haters around here. Some opinions I’ve read and considered on this board have chiseled away at my Randian heart just a tiny bit - does it ever do the same for some of the lefties around here? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-guys/493603/45 "2009-04-19T21:13:05Z")
Says who, the Board leans left? Where is the objective standard of measure, here? Pretty clearly, the country was yanked to the right by the events of 9/11, and its ruthless exploitation by the Forces of Darkness (see _Dennis Miller Syndrome_) But the ground has shifted. So, where is this metric by which you measure? And how did it get that way? Is there a selection committee, weeding out rightarded thinkers? Nope. Open discourse, scrupulously monitored and moderated by the Luminous Ones. A self-selecting sample? Read a bunch of threads about “how did you get to the Dope”, don’t recall much in the way of “Well, I was hanging around at \*Daily Kos \*and heard about this cool site for beating up on tighty rightys…” Nope. The Occam’s Laser answer would be: you guys aren’t discriminated against, you’re not shouted down, you’re just plain losing. Deal. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-guys/493603/46 "2009-04-19T21:15:26Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Says who, the Board leans left? Where is the objective standard of measure, here? Pretty clearly, the country was yanked to the right by the events of 9/11, and its ruthless exploitation by the Forces of Darkness (see _Dennis Miller Syndrome_) > > But the ground has shifted. So, where is this metric by which you measure? > > And how did it get that way? Is there a selection committee, weeding out rightarded thinkers? Nope. Open discourse, scrupulously monitored and moderated by the Luminous Ones. > > A self-selecting sample? Read a bunch of threads about “how did you get to the Dope”, don’t recall much in the way of “Well, I was hanging around at \*Daily Kos \*and heard about this cool site for beating up on tighty rightys…” Nope. > > The Occam’s Laser answer would be: you guys aren’t discriminated against, you’re not shouted down, you’re just plain losing. Deal. Who the hell said that we were fighting a war? This is a message board - there is no “Win” or “Lose”. Why is that even important to you? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-guys/493603/47 "2009-04-19T21:17:09Z")
I lack your Zen like detachment. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-guys/493603/48 "2009-04-19T21:21:01Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > But you guys are so so far left, you see everything justtotheright as a crazy Buchanan love fest. I hate it, since I have opinions that disagree. When I first started coming around here, I was introduced to the “Bush Doctrine” where within 8 posts, someone would find a way to blame GHWB. No debate, no fact checking - just knee-jerk slams against the (then) president. Blame the war in Iraq for at least part of this. We had lots of people on the right in the early days of that little adventure. As public perception on the war started looking less rosy, many of them disappeared. Perhaps some people don’t like being reminded of how stupid they were. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-guys/493603/49 "2009-04-19T21:25:38Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > For the record, I’m not saying that anyone who suggests that the board leans right is a dumbass (although I think they’re wrong). I called **gonzomax** a dumbass because he has consistently shown that he is over his head in many of the threads in which he participates. Just wanted to point that out in case someone accuses me of stereotyping. Just to chime in, gonzomax is clearly in reality one of the stupidest people ever to have drooled upon these boards. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-guys/493603/50 "2009-04-19T21:28:58Z")
Yeah, you lost me when you claimed that Fox was a legitimate news source. If you sincerely believe that, and it appears you do, then I have only sympathy for you. I can’t imagine anyone will want to debate anything with you now. Please, rethink that position! ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-guys/493603/51 "2009-04-19T21:48:41Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > But you guys are so so far left, you see everything justtotheright as a crazy Buchanan love fest. I hate it, since I have opinions that disagree. When I first started coming around here, I was introduced to the “Bush Doctrine” where within 8 posts, someone would find a way to blame GHWB. No debate, no fact checking - just knee-jerk slams against the (then) president. On this board I used to be called retrograde, conservative etc. . Then Bush came along and I objected to invading Iraq, torture, Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, secret phone taps, and all the other abridgements of civil rights and then I was called an America-hating leftist. So, without changing my ideas at all I went from being in the extreme right to being in the extreme left. And I had not moved at all. It seems the landscape has shifted significantly. So you can thank Bush for making me a “leftist”. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-guys/493603/52 "2009-04-19T21:59:26Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > It’s too bad - I’ve been intimated from participating in many debates on this board, since I know my position will be unpopular and ridiculed. You may not believe it, but it won’t be the case if your position is thoughtful, principled, and reasoned. If that isn’t the case, then you have no complaint. But if all you can bring yourself to post is Pit broadsides, then how are we to know how thoughtful and principled and reasoned your positions truly are? Why be content to let us all wallow in ignorance when it would be so easy for you to dispel it? Have you actually read the site’s masthead? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-guys/493603/53 "2009-04-19T22:18:15Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > Okay - why? Honest question…I just don’t how Fox is a water-carrier for the right. I don’t see it, and I listen to all types of media. This is an accepted truth around here, and I don’t know why. Bill O’Reilly constantly bashes Obama, and praised Bush while he was in office. The network in general glorifies Republicans. All the damn time. When Republicans shame them, they label them as Democrats, like Arlen Specter and Mark Foley. Here’s a tip: a network that is _actually_ “Fair and Balanced” doesn’t have to say it. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-guys/493603/54 "2009-04-19T22:31:21Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > And how did it get that way? Is there a selection committee, weeding out rightarded thinkers? Nope. Open discourse, scrupulously monitored and moderated by the Luminous Ones. Isn’t some of it, like the saying, “Even Hercules doesn’t fight against two.”, though? There are some views, that, if you express them, like that we were right to go into Iraq, or that we should have a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, or that the designated hitter rule is a good idea, for example, that no matter how good a debater you are or how well you lay out your argument, you’ll have enough people arguing with you that you just can’t keep up. I mean, it’s one thing to say that “You’ll do fine here if your position is thoughtful and reasoned” and so on, but there seem to be a lot of people around here who seem to think that conservative positions can’t be thoughtful and reasoned. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-guys/493603/55 "2009-04-19T23:03:42Z")
Well, I don’t know about the rest of you, but I just picked my political opinions precisely because they were the most supportable by argument. 'Cause I hate to lose arguments, not because I care about any of this! I mean, c’mon! Plus, lefty _chiquitas_ are totally hot and the designated hitter rule is gay. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-guys/493603/56 "2009-04-19T23:10:17Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > There are some views, that, if you express them, like that we were right to go into Iraq, […] you’ll have enough people arguing with you that you just can’t keep up. I’ll be right there because for me saying it was right to go into Iraq is like saying it was right to exterminate Jews. There is just no way I can admit that. I find it immoral, criminal and indefensible and I will not allow that to go uncontested. And yet I am in matters of economy and others pretty conservative. I just don’t justify killing people. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-guys/493603/57 "2009-04-19T23:13:10Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, I don’t know about the rest of you, but I just picked my political opinions precisely because they were the most supportable by argument. That’s cheating! You should pick your political opinions at random or it’s not fair. Maybe we should have handicaps, like in gold and sailing, to make things even and give the Bush supporters a chance to win once in a while. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-guys/493603/58 "2009-04-19T23:27:40Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I mean, it’s one thing to say that “You’ll do fine here if your position is thoughtful and reasoned” and so on, but there seem to be a lot of people around here who seem to think that conservative positions can’t be thoughtful and reasoned. The thing is that nowadays ‘conservative’ and ‘Republican’ are practically synonymous (most Republicans are conservative, after all), and with the way many prominent Republicans are acting and talking, their positions usually _aren’t_ thoughtful or reasoned. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-guys/493603/59 "2009-04-19T23:41:22Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > The thing is that nowadays ‘conservative’ and ‘Republican’ are practically synonymous (most Republicans are conservative, after all), and with the way many prominent Republicans are acting and talking, their positions usually _aren’t_ thoughtful or reasoned. Sure, but how many people on this board refer to themselves as fiscally conservative and socially liberal? Does that mean that they all want to follow Republican fiscal policies? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-guys/493603/60 "2009-04-19T23:43:26Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > I’ll be right there because for me saying it was right to go into Iraq is like saying it was right to exterminate Jews. There is just no way I can admit that. I find it immoral, criminal and indefensible and I will not allow that to go uncontested. > > And yet I am in matters of economy and others pretty conservative. I just don’t justify killing people. See, I don’t even know how to argue with you. If you really believe that saying it was right to go into Iraq is like saying it was right to exterminate Jews, then I don’t even know what to say. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-guys/493603.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-guys/493603.md?page=4)