# I pit you, highschool letterman wearer **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 10, 2006, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-highschool-letterman-wearer/343864 "2006-02-10T14:53:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-highschool-letterman-wearer/343864/61 "2006-02-10T20:27:10Z")
> [@The King of Soup](#): > > **Excalibre** (was the username **Excalibur** already taken?), Not to my knowledge. Why do you ask? > [@](#): > > I had you pegged for someone who didn’t judge much by appearances, and I think my first impression was right. That would be correct. I don’t care much about how people dress. That doesn’t mean, however, that I am obligated to ignore clothing that ostentatiously sends a message. When you get a little older, you may begin to understand that dividing people up into categories like “those who judge based on appearances” and “those who don’t judge based on appearances” is rather ineffective. I’m certainly no fashion plate and I don’t particularly care to be. I don’t spend a lot of time or thought on clothing. But I’m perfectly capable of making a judgment about what someone is communicating with their outfit. It’s certainly the case that the woman in question _might_ have been in some circumstance that required her to wear the jacket, and thus she is not deliberately communicating what she appears to be. Fortunately for her, she’s not likely to get hurt just cause people on a message board make fun of how she’s dressed. > [@](#): > > If my purple prose (it sure is, isn’t it?) irritates you, let us just fall back on this bit of pragmatism: complaining about how other people, whom you do not know, dress is a futile bit of snobbery, couched in uninformed assumptions about the reasons for choosing a random morning’s wardrobe. It won’t change the way they dress, and it won’t improve your standing among the elite, assuming they’re paying as close attention to you as they should. Actually, the overheated texts you produced in your youth might be worth another look, especially if they were informed by a more modest outlook. You’re a bit smug, aren’t you? Are you like this in real life, or only on the internet? As you (and **Bosda** before you) pointed out, it’s possible there is some other, mysterious reason unknown to us that she dressed that way. You are welcome to join him and **Mtgman** in cooking up other reasons why she might have dressed that way beyond the obvious one. I doubt you’ll succeed, though, as you’ve shown yourself a remarkably poor judge of character in regards to your judgments of me at least. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-highschool-letterman-wearer/343864/62 "2006-02-10T20:30:22Z")
> [@The King of Soup](#): > > Surely you’re not relying on what you _wear_ to offend people, any more than you can rely on what you say to persuade them. Still, I hope your self-esteem depends less on deprecation of what other people wear than you unintentionally profess. Good luck. Oh! You’ve cut me to the quick. I’m just going to go over in the corner here and sob into the layers of crinoline and tulle that make up my still owned prom dress. \<_sob_\> Actually, I’m fine. My self-esteem doesn’t depend on the deprecation of what other people wear, and more on the deprecation of what other people post. You’re making me feel like a million bucks. Cheers! ---
**Author:** ![Stonebow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Stonebow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stonebow)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-highschool-letterman-wearer/343864/63 "2006-02-10T20:34:45Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > Why is it the only assumption it is safe to make about this woman is that she’s stuck in a high-school frame of mind? For me, as I’ve explained, it’s because it is the reason I have observed in people that engage in this behavior. These are not strangers, but people that I am familiar with, so I don’t have to look for some arcane reason why they do it. I’ll assume that everyone else sniping at her has similar reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-highschool-letterman-wearer/343864/64 "2006-02-10T20:38:13Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > Once again, for the slower-paced: your clothes say things about you. If you don’t care what you’re communicating by how you’re dressed, don’t worry about it. That doesn’t mean the rest of us are also obligated to ignore it. You may join **Bosda** in trying to come up with conceivable circumstances in which wearing your letter jacket 22 years later isn’t lame if you wish. True enough, but like everything else, jumping to conclusions about a person based on incomplete information, like a casual wardrobe choice, reflects more poorly on the observer than the observed. Your clothes say something about you. Your reactions to other’s clothes say much, much more. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-highschool-letterman-wearer/343864/65 "2006-02-10T20:45:16Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > Your clothes say something about you. Your reactions to other’s clothes say much, much more. Nice try. If I notice someone dressed like a throwback to 1986 and think to myself, “Huh, how odd” and carry on with my day, what does that say about me, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-highschool-letterman-wearer/343864/66 "2006-02-10T20:46:05Z")
Wolverines! ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-highschool-letterman-wearer/343864/67 "2006-02-10T20:52:44Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > Nice try. If I notice someone dressed like a throwback to 1986 and think to myself, “Huh, how odd” and carry on with my day, what does that say about me, exactly? It means you’ve forgotten your uninformed ideals, your green talents, and your innocently-chosen friends. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-highschool-letterman-wearer/343864/68 "2006-02-10T20:56:51Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > Wolverines! Great. Now I have an image of **lieu** looking just like Patrick Swayze with big hair. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-highschool-letterman-wearer/343864/69 "2006-02-10T21:02:53Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > It means you’ve forgotten your uninformed ideals, your green talents, and your innocently-chosen friends. Oh right. Lucky that. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-highschool-letterman-wearer/343864/70 "2006-02-10T21:03:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Shut the fuck up and give me twenty bucks of regular on pump 5, gasjockey. Yeah, this is pretty much exactly the attitude displayed by the guy I ran into from high school. Still a worthless tool, and still wallowing in it. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-highschool-letterman-wearer/343864/71 "2006-02-10T21:03:57Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Great. Now I have an image of **lieu** looking just like Patrick Swayze with big hair. What do you mean “Now”? ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-highschool-letterman-wearer/343864/72 "2006-02-10T21:05:27Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > Not to my knowledge. Why do you ask? Because I had previously seen the name **Excalibur** , referring to King Arthur’s sword from Malory’s Morte’ d’ Arthur, and many subsequent sources, including Tennyson, but not Excalibre, which I didn’t recognize, and I thought I might learn something from the new derivation. If you’re not too mad at me, I’d still like to: what’s the story behind your spelling? > [@Excalibre](#): > > I don’t care much about how people dress. That doesn’t mean, however, that I am obligated to ignore clothing that ostentatiously sends a message. Which of these sentences am I meant to believe? > [@Excalibre](#): > > When you get a little older, you may begin to understand that dividing people up into categories like “those who judge based on appearances” and “those who don’t judge based on appearances” is rather ineffective. It’s effective in separating people who judge based on appearance from those who don’t. Besides, long before you reach full maturity, you stop dividing people up into categories based on appearances period. From the onset of adulthood, whenever it finally occurs, wardrobe is the province of club bouncers, Joan Rivers, and nobody else that matters. > [@Excalibre](#): > > I don’t spend a lot of time or thought on clothing. But I’m perfectly capable of making a judgment about what someone is communicating with their outfit. I often make judgments like this, and sometimes my young children have to remind me how silly I’m being. > [@Excalibre](#): > > It’s certainly the case that the woman in question _might_ have been in some circumstance that required her to wear the jacket … And thus is forgiveness born. Let charity rule this day. > [@Excalibre](#): > > You’re a bit smug, aren’t you? Are you like this in real life, or only on the internet? Smug? _Moi_? Oh, I suppose, but I’m taking the side of a middle-aged woman to wear an old jacket without ridicule. You would too, most days. There’s little enough of it going around. > [@Excalibre](#): > > … you’ve shown yourself a remarkably poor judge of character in regards to your judgments of me at least. I retain my good opinion of you. We can disagree without descending into enmity. Please accept my best regards and wishes, even if we must disagree. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-highschool-letterman-wearer/343864/73 "2006-02-10T21:15:07Z")
Adding another pointless entry into the must have ‘Every Scenario Covered’ anecdotal race. Just some bullshit observations… [ul] [li]I shop(ped) at thrift stores and for vintage stuff on eBay. I’m a latter day Molly Ringwald. 🙂 I love that shit. So, when as a kid, I found a cheapie letter jacket like those I saw on **Happy Days** I snagged it up. Our school didn’t have those and it was so nice, neat and warm. I don’t know what happened to it, but I wish I still had it. Sadly for me, I can’t afford any of the ones I find now.[/li][li]I understand feeling bad about those who’ve never lived past their glory days. However, I usually reserve my pity for people I actually know, that I can verify (for lack of a better word) haven’t moved on. Usually it has more to do with actions then appearance, in my experience. Because those folks might not have had any fashion sense twenty years ago and, a la’ **Napoleon Dynamite** , are just now catching up. Certainly, my former town would be guilty of this.[/li][li]I think I still have my prom dress(es) around somewhere. Hell, those things were way too expensive to toss and I might be able to recoup big bucks like those now selling Gunne Sax.[/li][li]I quit wearing my high school ring after I graduated. Of course, mine was dog ugly and had symbols that I’d no longer associate with myself (IE: a cross), but I’d never begrudge anyone else for wearing theirs. Especially (as if it mattered) if it had sentimental value or you like all things retro. Like rockabilly.[/li][li]I was middle-of-the-road in my teenage. Got along with everyone, as far as I could tell, and had even a couple of quasi-popular friends. However, that didn’t seem very important then or now. Being pretty much a loner fits me.[/li][li]Hippie-ism is my style of choice. And I now remember in the early days of talk shows, I’d see makeovers of women stuck in the 70s. Man, oh man, how I wish I’d had the wardrobes they’d thrown away. Only too, to make someone else happy in clothes they often didn’t feel comfortable in and were probably dated, if not immediately, shortly before they’d update (or be able to afford) something else.[/li][li]As to now, some of my things fall into the “do” category and some don’t. Mostly, I don’t need, or want to, spend my hard earned cash on what looks kinda like perishables. But, as with all of the above, everyone’s mileage obviously various.[/li][/ul] Lastly, and I mean absolutely NO rancor in this (as I don’t have much dealings with teenagers), but does anyone older (say past, um, 25) use the word “tool”? I’ve only seen it on here and never heard an adult say it in real life, unless they worked/had adolescents. Thank you for listening to this un-interesting, futile post. Please feel free to ignore/laugh at or attack for any lameness. I don’t mind at all. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-highschool-letterman-wearer/343864/74 "2006-02-10T21:15:14Z")
> [@The King of Soup](#): > > Because I had previously seen the name **Excalibur** , referring to King Arthur’s sword from Malory’s Morte’ d’ Arthur, and many subsequent sources, including Tennyson, but not Excalibre, which I didn’t recognize, and I thought I might learn something from the new derivation. If you’re not too mad at me, I’d still like to: what’s the story behind your spelling? A long time ago, I needed a free email address. I chose this spelling - which I’ve seen somewhere, though I long ago forgot where - because I figured it was unlikely to be taken. The odd spelling has meant that I’ve been able to keep it as my name on any number of different websites over the years. > [@](#): > > Which of these sentences am I meant to believe? Your next stage of growth is understanding that the world is not composed of absolutes. > [@](#): > > It’s effective in separating people who judge based on appearance from those who don’t. Only if you believe that those are two absolutes, and nothing in between. > [@](#): > > Besides, long before you reach full maturity, you stop dividing people up into categories based on appearances period. From the onset of adulthood, whenever it finally occurs, wardrobe is the province of club bouncers, Joan Rivers, and nobody else that matters. I sense a bit of defensiveness about this. You can be uninterested in fashion without condemning those who _are_ interested. Like I said, I don’t care much about such things, but I don’t consider myself inherently superior to people who _do_ care about clothes. In this case, though, it’s not really about clothes per se but about what someone is expressing with a very odd fashion choice. > [@](#): > > I often make judgments like this, and sometimes my young children have to remind me how silly I’m being. I am fortunate that I don’t have to resort to asking little children for advice. > [@](#): > > And thus is forgiveness born. Let charity rule this day. Assuming something that is at best unlikely may be charitable, but it’s also foolish. > [@](#): > > Smug? _Moi_? Oh, I suppose, but I’m taking the side of a middle-aged woman to wear an old jacket without ridicule. You would too, most days. There’s little enough of it going around. Yep, you’re a bit smug. I’ll charitably assume you’re just very confident, and not as arrogant as you’re acting. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-highschool-letterman-wearer/343864/75 "2006-02-10T21:15:56Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > Nice try. If I notice someone dressed like a throwback to 1986 and think to myself, “Huh, how odd” and carry on with my day, what does that say about me, exactly? Nothing. If, however, you start a pit thread saying you “hate” this person, with this garment choice being the only thing you know about them, then it says a bit more. Some theorizing about the way she feels about her high school experience or the kind of person she was/is says a bit more. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-highschool-letterman-wearer/343864/76 "2006-02-10T21:31:02Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > Nothing. If, however, you start a pit thread saying you “hate” this person, with this garment choice being the only thing you know about them, then it says a bit more. Some theorizing about the way she feels about her high school experience or the kind of person she was/is says a bit more. > > Enjoy, > Steven While I agree that “hating” someone for a coat is bizarre, what exactly does theorizing say about a person? When **bosda** theorizes that > [@](#): > > this woman might be stuck in a terrible marriage, have a dead-end job, health problems, no friends, or an utterly thankless family? Or several of these problems? what does that say about him? That he’s imaginative? ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-highschool-letterman-wearer/343864/77 "2006-02-10T21:45:35Z")
I’ve started and deleted a few posts on this topic, but they all boil down to this: shut the fuck up and grow the fuck up. This is so dumb, former misfits hating on former jocks for clinging to the past. What the fuck do you think you’re doing now, Poindexter? Helloooooo, McFly?! It is makes you feel better, point and laugh at the retard and go on about your life. Don’t hate. Definately don’t post a weaksauce pit thread. Laugh and move. Of course if laughing makes you feel better your still on the same station as the jock and you’re just as retarded, but hey, at least you have your WoW friends. Leeroooooooooy nnnJenkiiiiiinnnnns!!!11! And before anyone asks: Yes, I have two varisty letters, but one was for band and I wasn’t a “jock” by any stretch of the imagination. No, I don’t have a varisty jacket. Yes, I have a class ring, but I stopped wearing it around winter of senior year of college. Yes, I have a high school sweatshirt and yes I occassionally wear it along with my college and grad school stuff. Oh, and I’m 22. Not sure if I’ll still wear any of it twenty years from now except for on weekends and special occassions (going to a game), but who knows. > [@lieu](#): > > Wolverines! Avenge me, boy! Avenge me! ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-highschool-letterman-wearer/343864/78 "2006-02-10T21:59:36Z")
Hey, I graduated high school in 1984, too! I never got a letter jacket, but I did letter in academics - I still have that around here somewhere. I should buy a jacket and sew it on. Maybe a nice, grey trenchcoat. Or sew it on my parka, and just move it from jacket to jacket as they wear out. I can only speak for myself, but once you’re old enough to be out of high school for 22 years, you really don’t care much what anonymous people on message boards think of what you do. Hell, you don’t care much what people talking to you in real life think of what you do. “I grow old … I grow old … I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled.” ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-highschool-letterman-wearer/343864/79 "2006-02-10T22:11:30Z")
My sister still wears some of her stuff from high school-including her prom dress. It’s a nice, stylish evening gown and she’s used it for a few formal occassions in college. What good is buying something you’ll only wear once or twice, I’ll never know. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-highschool-letterman-wearer/343864/80 "2006-02-10T22:30:50Z")
Regarding class rings, are you close enough to the person to read their ring? So you know it’s a high school ring and not something else? Because they also similar rings to commemorate college, graduate school, honor societies, military service, etc. I happen to like that style of ring, and if I had a hand-me-down of a ring one of my grandparents wore, I’d sure as hell wear it. I just bought myself a sweet ring to commemorate my Army service. So, is a class ring more or less lame than a tattoo? Just wondering. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-highschool-letterman-wearer/343864.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-highschool-letterman-wearer/343864.md?page=5)