# I pit you, the general public. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2013, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-the-general-public/653991 "2013-03-26T09:25:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-the-general-public/653991/121 "2013-03-29T15:41:38Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I don’t understand this phrase in this context, unless your pizza parlor has a drive through window, which I’ve never seen in a pizza parlor. Please explain? Drivers on deliveries need to be actually taking the delivery, not stopping at McDonald’s to get a burger. You’re supposed to do that sort of thing before, or after, your shift. Not during. While we don’t have people out there on the clock looking for this behavior, if a manager, general manager, or area coach sees your car, he knows you and recognizes your car, and also knows that you’re supposed to be working. Not every manager is at work, some of them are out buying groceries or… hitting the drive-thru. You don’t get warnings on that. So folks, if you think your delivery driver is wasting time, I can guarantee you it’s not happening, because the driver in question won’t be working for us for very long. That’s why it’s guaranteed. Drivers are not wasting time. We have map books, GPS, and a big fat map next to the ‘out’ door. Any delay caused by the actual drive portion is attributable to rush hour traffic. We’re not sitting in our cars, slack-jawed, enjoying a leisurely smoke in the parking lot, while the boss is completely unawares. That guy is being beaten by 5 or 10 minutes on every single run by all the other drivers, and then his hours get cut the following week for having 30 minute drive times. He’s essentially fired, because having your hours cut to 4 a week is the same thing as being fired. He’d need to improve markedly to get his hours back. I cannot overemphasize the point that any delay in getting your pizza is not the fault of the driver. We ironed out that wrinkle in our business model a long, long time ago. A driver cannot slack and retain his job. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-the-general-public/653991/122 "2013-03-29T18:25:38Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Here in Manhattan my delivery places are all within a three or four block radius. The delivery folks use no car, usually a bicycle or possibly just old fashioned walking. > … > They’re providing a service of physical labor and they do it fast. Why on earth wouldn’t I afford them the respect and gratitude they deserve? I genuinely can’t comprehend a $2 tip – and I’ve been through poor times myself. Let me preface this by saying that my minimum tip is $3 no matter what I get (even just a cheap breakfast at a diner, or for the guy who literally walks from next door with Chinese food) and goes up from there, but I can see the other side of this. Your delivery person walks a few blocks many times and $2 each time adds up over the hours. They aren’t paying for a car, they’re getting wages on top of this, and carrying food doesn’t require special skills. If $2 is minimal for a guy who has to drive his car miles, pay insurance, etc., it’s certainly respectable for someone on foot from a few blocks away. It’s not mid-blowingly low. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-the-general-public/653991/123 "2013-03-29T20:04:31Z")
Well, I have to say I am convinced. Since my $2tip on a $20 order 1.5 miles away makes me a lazy-assed cheapskate, the answer is clear- just don’t order delivery pizza anymore. Thank you for the advice. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-the-general-public/653991/124 "2013-03-29T20:21:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, I have to say I am convinced. Since my $2tip on a $20 order 1.5 miles away makes me a lazy-assed cheapskate, the answer is clear- just don’t order delivery pizza anymore. Thank you for the advice. That is what it boils down to. I guarantee you will pay more than $2 in overall costs (including your time) to pick up any food of any kind from 1.5mi away. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-the-general-public/653991/125 "2013-03-29T20:36:24Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > That is what it boils down to. I guarantee you will pay more than $2 in overall costs ( **including your time** ) to pick up any food of any kind from 1.5mi away. Not if deliveries always consistently take longer than it would take to just pick it up. Then you have to weigh whether the longer time you’re spending without food, but still able to do other things on an empty stomach, is worth more than the shorter amount of time you’re completely dedicating to driving. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-the-general-public/653991/126 "2013-03-29T20:40:30Z")
btw when I actually did eat chain pizza, I would almost always pick it up, unless I was not able to drive for some reason. Because I was able to get it quicker and I didn’t have to tip or pay delivery charges. But this was not affected by a cultural expectation of a high tip: if a dollar tip would have also been acceptable, I still would have driven. I’ve always lived close enough (around 1.5 miles like you say) that the car costs are less than a dollar. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-the-general-public/653991/127 "2013-03-29T21:05:16Z")
Tipping less than 5 bucks for any pizza delivery is just unfathomable to me. You only ordered one large pepperoni for $9.99? You pay a 5 dollar tip to the delivery driver and smile and thank him. You ordered 3 extra large combo pizzas and your total comes to $34.99? Pay a $5 tip with a smile to your delivery driver and thank him. What’s wrong with you people only tipping 2 dollars? Fuck that shit! That’s awful. You might as well poke him in the eye too. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-the-general-public/653991/128 "2013-03-29T22:09:59Z")
Three days late,but BRAV-FUCKING-O. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-the-general-public/653991/129 "2013-03-29T22:24:14Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > What’s wrong with you people only tipping 2 dollars? Fuck that shit! That’s awful. You might as well poke him in the eye too. I delivered pizza in high school (mid '80s) and a $2 tip was ok, $5 was generous. I ordered pizza in college (late 80s) and a $2 tip was still ok and pretty standard among us starving students. After college I couldn’t really afford delivery pizza until like 20 years later. Fast forward to like 5 years ago when I became a pizza ordering recidivist. Had the check made out for Pizza +$2, didn’t even give it a second thought because, well, that’s pizza tip, right? Handed over the check, gripped the pizza box with a thank you and mutual smiles and I swear to Glob I heard a small explosion in the pizza guys brain. He didn’t say or do anything, it was just a dissatisfied vibe. Took me a second to realize I wasn’t in 1988 anymore, and that $2 was not good enough anymore. (I corrected the situation, by the way) ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-the-general-public/653991/130 "2013-03-30T08:56:25Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, I have to say I am convinced. Since my $2tip on a $20 order 1.5 miles away makes me a lazy-assed cheapskate, the answer is clear- just don’t order delivery pizza anymore. Thank you for the advice. I’m not sure who convinced you of that, but I’m not really here to argue with anyone. I did say that the 2 dollar minimum is fine if you’re on a budget, and if you wanted to tip less than that, to please go get it yourself. Those are my words, posted in the thread several times. I’m pretty sure that’s a fair asking price. Here’s why: It still takes up 10-15 minutes of my time. Take the minimum wage, around 8 dollars, and divide it by 4, which is the average number of deliveries per hour when we’re busy. That is 2 dollars, or… the minimum a wage should be, per quarter-hour. Which is 15 minutes, the average delivery time, round-trip. You have already concluded that this amount is fair, in your previous postings. What this thread is about, is the folks who have concluded that zero is enough. You’re taking the insults directed at those people (rightly) as being directed at you, which is wrong. 2 is the very bare minimum my time is worth. Yeah, it’s not exactly generous. I’m just saying I can eke out a living on it, so you’re technically fine. I’m not going to lavish high praise upon you for giving the fair minimum, though. I hope you weren’t expecting something like that. I wasn’t insulting you, either. But I’ve already spent too much time worrying about whether people have misconstrued what I had to say. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-the-general-public/653991/131 "2013-03-30T09:10:45Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Tipping less than 5 bucks for any pizza delivery is just unfathomable to me. You only ordered one large pepperoni for $9.99? You pay a 5 dollar tip to the delivery driver and smile and thank him. You ordered 3 extra large combo pizzas and your total comes to $34.99? Pay a $5 tip with a smile to your delivery driver and thank him. > > What’s wrong with you people only tipping 2 dollars? Fuck that shit! That’s awful. You might as well poke him in the eye too. I’m going to throw a really bizarre analogy at you. (Because my brain works that way) A computer game I like to play is called Civilization (IV, in this case). In that game you can work the map for resources, and certain tiles are worth more than others. Each person in your empire eats two food, and each worked tile requires a person working it. Some tiles gave you two food, some tiles gave you more, some tiles give you less, some tiles give you no food. Obviously, in order to grow your empire, you need to work tiles that give you more than two food. Three food, four food, etc. If you work a tile that gives you no food, you then need to work a tile that gives you four food. Because I have expenses, and folks who don’t tip, I’m losing money on many of my deliveries. I’m not earning, and I’m spending. Therefore, for every customer that tips me nothing, I need a customer tipping me four dollars instead of two. That’s not a particularly equitable system, but I can eke out a living making two dollars on average per run. I’d do better if most people tipped more than the two I need to survive, and nobody tipped nothing, but these are the breaks. In Civ IV, You can’t grow your empire on only two food. But at least you’re not going hungry. That’s how I view the two dollar tippers. Hey, at least they aren’t making my problems worse, and they respect me enough to make sure I don’t go hungry. I have no animosity whatsoever toward the two dollar tippers. They are paying their fair share- enough to cover themselves. If everyone did it, I’d be okay. Not great, but not bad. However, to be realistic, in order to pay my bills, I’m still going to need some tippers who are actually _generous_, to make up for the worse tippers. But, every two dollar tipper I get, is not a bad deal. That’s one less customer that I then need another generous tipper to deliver to in order to recover my sunk costs of gas, time and energy, wear and tear, and so forth. …I should probably stop playing that game so much. It’s starting to seep into my rants. _Bad pizzaguy. Go build empires on someone else’s dime, man. These people are here to read about friggen pizza for some unfathomable reason._ One… more… turn… ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-the-general-public/653991/132 "2013-03-30T10:23:06Z")
Well I very, VERY rarely order pizza to be delivered (I almost always elect to go pick it up myself and I don’t order pizza often anyhow). Not sure if that means I’m ultimately screwing delivery drivers out of their livelihood or not. But when I do order delivered, I make sure to tip and I do NOT penalize the driver if it is late because I know it is not their fault. I’m glad to be one of those guys who helps makes up for the cheap assess who don’t tip at all. I can’t believe there are people who actually just flat out don’t tip a delivery driver at all. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-the-general-public/653991/133 "2013-03-30T10:43:14Z")
Does your business offer delivey of partially cooked pizzas for folks who have to wait a long time for delivery? That’s how pizzas are delivered to the area where my satellite office is, for the delivery time is one and a half hours, plus return, totaling a three hour trip for the delivery person. Does your business give realistic delivery time estimates when it is busy? ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-the-general-public/653991/134 "2013-03-30T11:01:18Z")
I’ve spent the last five years living out in the middle of nowhere where the nearest pizza place is 20 minutes away, and absolutely no one will deliver to us. The other day I had to order pizza to be delivered to work for a meeting. When the guy showed up, I somehow managed to completely forget that tipping delivery is normal. I was thinking of it more like me picking it up, which I don’t tip for. So I stiffed him. It wasn’t until a few minutes later that I realized, “Oh, right. I should have tipped him. Oops.” There’s no point to this story. Just wanted to share. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-the-general-public/653991/135 "2013-03-30T17:05:23Z")
Nice pitting. I thought it tilted perhaps a little too focused on black people, but hey, they can be annoying too. Can you move to another town? Every population is not as degraded as the one you describe. And oh yeah, Mitt Romney says to take responsibility for your life! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-the-general-public/653991/136 "2013-03-30T17:09:48Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > I have since moved up in the world, but from time to time we are short on staff and my services are called upon yet again to bring people their beloved pizza. And tonight I got a full reminder of why I accepted that promotion in the first place- anything to get the hell away from you freaks. As a veteran of more than 50,000 deliveries for Pizza Hut while she was working her way through engineering school in the 1980’s/1990’s, I liked your OP. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-the-general-public/653991/137 "2013-03-30T17:47:19Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > I’m going to throw a really bizarre analogy at you. (Because my brain works that way) > > A computer game I like to play is called Civilization (IV, in this case). In that game you can work the map for resources, and certain tiles are worth more than others. Each person in your empire eats two food, and each worked tile requires a person working it. Some tiles gave you two food, some tiles gave you more, some tiles give you less, some tiles give you no food. > > Obviously, in order to grow your empire, you need to work tiles that give you more than two food. Three food, four food, etc. If you work a tile that gives you no food, you then need to work a tile that gives you four food. > > Because I have expenses, and folks who don’t tip, I’m losing money on many of my deliveries. I’m not earning, and I’m spending. Therefore, for every customer that tips me nothing, I need a customer tipping me four dollars instead of two. That’s not a particularly equitable system, but I can eke out a living making two dollars on average per run. I’d do better if most people tipped more than the two I need to survive, and nobody tipped nothing, but these are the breaks. > > In Civ IV, You can’t grow your empire on only two food. But at least you’re not going hungry. That’s how I view the two dollar tippers. Hey, at least they aren’t making my problems worse, and they respect me enough to make sure I don’t go hungry. > > I have no animosity whatsoever toward the two dollar tippers. They are paying their fair share- enough to cover themselves. If everyone did it, I’d be okay. Not great, but not bad. However, to be realistic, in order to pay my bills, I’m still going to need some tippers who are actually _generous_, to make up for the worse tippers. But, every two dollar tipper I get, is not a bad deal. That’s one less customer that I then need another generous tipper to deliver to in order to recover my sunk costs of gas, time and energy, wear and tear, and so forth. > > …I should probably stop playing that game so much. It’s starting to seep into my rants. > > _Bad pizzaguy. Go build empires on someone else’s dime, man. These people are here to read about friggen pizza for some unfathomable reason._ > > One… more… turn… So, uh, it’s like golf. A two-dollar tipper is par for the hole. It’s not going to improve your day, but at least you won’t have to birdie the next hole in order to make up for your bogey this time. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-the-general-public/653991/138 "2013-03-30T19:03:54Z")
It’s like a balloon with just the right amount of helium pumped into it! Your balloon leaks a little helium as you are delivering throughout the night, and each $2 tip restores just enough helium to keep your balloon happy. If no one tips as all, balloon is completely deflated and everyone is super sad. And if they tipped you too much it would pop and you would be even sadder… oh wait, that doesn’t sound right at all ☹ ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-the-general-public/653991/139 "2013-03-31T05:17:36Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > I’m not sure who convinced you of that, but I’m not really here to argue with anyone. I did say that the 2 dollar minimum is fine if you’re on a budget, and if you wanted to tip less than that, to please go get it yourself. > > Those are my words, posted in the thread several times. I’m pretty sure that’s a fair asking price. Here’s why: > > It still takes up 10-15 minutes of my time. Take the minimum wage, around 8 dollars, and divide it by 4, which is the average number of deliveries per hour when we’re busy. > > That is 2 dollars, or… the minimum a wage should be, per quarter-hour. Which is 15 minutes, the average delivery time, round-trip. > > You have already concluded that this amount is fair, in your previous postings. > > What this thread is about, is the folks who have concluded that zero is enough. > > You’re taking the insults directed at those people (rightly) as being directed at you, which is wrong. > > 2 is the very bare minimum my time is worth. Yeah, it’s not exactly generous. I’m just saying I can eke out a living on it, so you’re technically fine. > > I’m not going to lavish high praise upon you for giving the fair minimum, though. I hope you weren’t expecting something like that. I wasn’t insulting you, either. > > But I’ve already spent too much time worrying about whether people have misconstrued what I had to say. Well, I said I tipped $2 and one or two posters called me a cheapskate and another lazy. So, yeah, the pizza place is 1.5 miles from my house. My pizza comes to $17.37. I hand him a $20. I guess that makes me cheap. So, instead I’ll just pick up the pizza instead. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-the-general-public/653991/140 "2013-03-31T05:33:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Drivers on deliveries need to be actually taking the delivery, not stopping at McDonald’s to get a burger. You’re supposed to do that sort of thing before, or after, your shift. Not during. > > While we don’t have people out there on the clock looking for this behavior, if a manager, general manager, or area coach sees your car, he knows you and recognizes your car, and also knows that you’re supposed to be working. Not every manager is at work, some of them are out buying groceries or… hitting the drive-thru. > > You don’t get warnings on that. Ah. I call this conducting personal business on company time. And just about all workplaces frown on this…unless the boss is the worst offender. In which case it’s usually OK for the boss to do it, but not OK for the other people to do it. > [@](#): > > Well, I said I tipped $2 and one or two posters called me a cheapskate and another lazy. So, yeah, the pizza place is 1.5 miles from my house. My pizza comes to $17.37. I hand him a $20. I guess that makes me cheap. It doesn’t make you cheap, it doesn’t make you generous. It makes you average, according to the OP, who says he can live on two dollar tips. Also, I prefer Civ III to Civ IV. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-the-general-public/653991.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-you-the-general-public/653991.md?page=8)