# I pit Zionism **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 27, 2025, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-zionism/1018840 "2025-05-27T02:30:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![natureboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@natureboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/natureboy)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-zionism/1018840/221 "2025-05-29T09:28:45Z")
“Arab” was inaccurate; I meant to say what MrDibble said. The people who were living in the Palestine region prior to the founding of Israel had lineages that date back before spread of Islam. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-zionism/1018840/222 "2025-05-29T10:16:55Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > Ehud Olmert was on NPR this morning calling what Netanyahu is doing war crimes, and accusing him of having no desire to end this. FWIW, I assume he’s not an antisemite. I can’t recall if he used the word genocide or not. At least Ehud Olmert has done a _little_ hard time for being a corrupt criminal scumbag. Not sure who wants to listen to him on the radio. ---
**Author:** ![BayLeaves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@BayLeaves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BayLeaves)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-zionism/1018840/223 "2025-05-29T10:39:09Z")
The Jews have the right to live safely in Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-zionism/1018840/224 "2025-05-29T10:41:23Z")
Funny. The purpose of his lecture wasn’t to denigrate Israel. He was pointing out an example of how Buddhist teachings meet resistance. I notice you haven’t exactly denied Israel’s regard for Palestinians. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-zionism/1018840/225 "2025-05-29T11:01:55Z")
Bullshit. His lecture was slander, nothing more. While I can tell you that in general, Israelis don’t particularly like the Palestinians all that much right now, most of us still think of them as human beings. Any loss of empathy is a result of years and years of vicious asymmetric warfare, not thanks to the designs of the Elders of Zion. As for the line about soldiers being “trained to have no empathy for Palestinians”, how does that work? How do you even do that? What kind of unique Israeli Army training/indoctrination/brainwashing program is that, which nobody has ever even heard of? What are its methods and curriculum? Where are the newspaper articles criticizing or praising it? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and your anecdote does not meet the standards of the SDMB, even in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-zionism/1018840/226 "2025-05-29T11:11:06Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Determining who was there first is a pointless exercise given the history of the place. > > What I would like (and I suspect most people in the region would like) is an end to the displacement and/or slaughter of one group by another, the mistreatment of one group by another. Yes I agree on both counts. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-zionism/1018840/227 "2025-05-29T11:23:36Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Funny. The purpose of his lecture wasn’t to denigrate Israel. He was pointing out an example of how Buddhist teachings meet resistance. I notice you haven’t exactly denied Israel’s regard for Palestinians. I guess you’re going to keep digging. Let us know when you get to the Scrolls. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-zionism/1018840/228 "2025-05-29T11:27:09Z")
OK, you got me. I confess I don’t know where he spoke. I put in “military post” because I thought it was generic enough. It could have been a school, a convention center, or somebody’s back yard. That’s not relevant to the point of his story. Do you deny Israeli soldiers are trained to have no empathy for Palestinians? Soldiers around the world are trained that way in regard to their enemies. His story could have applied to any military-rich environment. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-zionism/1018840/229 "2025-05-29T11:28:23Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Bullshit. His lecture was slander, nothing more. I don’t recall seeing you there. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-zionism/1018840/230 "2025-05-29T11:58:34Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Do you deny Israeli soldiers are trained to have no empathy for Palestinians? Soldiers around the world are trained that way in regard to their enemies. His story could have applied to any military-rich environment. First of all, your example singled out Israeli soldiers as being somehow uniquely unempathetic. The monk had been on a world tour, and he must have visited other countries’ military facilities. Why was it only in Israel that people told him his views on the brotherhood of man were verboten? Why didn’t he use an example from some other country’s military base? Second of all, soldiers from different countries trained differently. The US military, for instance, is often sent halfway around the world to fight people their soldiers might have never heard of, for reasons they don’t fully understand. It makes sense that they be desensitized and have their empathy suppressed. Israelis, though, we know who our enemies are. We grew up with the conflict. There’s no need to impress on us the importance of the task. I’ve been through Israeli military training myself. We learned how to fight, how to work together, how to look after ourselves. If there was any indoctrination, it was in the form of impressing on us the need to look after each other - espirit du corps, leave no man behind, all that stuff. Soldiers fight for the man besides them. You don’t need to train a soldier hate in order to get him to kill; training him to love the people he’s responsible for protecting, soldiers or civilian, works even better. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-zionism/1018840/231 "2025-05-29T12:23:09Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > At least Ehud Olmert has done a _little_ hard time for being a corrupt criminal scumbag. Not sure who wants to listen to him on the radio. So anyone who criticizes Israel is an antisemite, but if that person can’t be dismissed as such because he’s been the PM of Israel, his words carry no weight because he’s a corrupt criminal scumbag. How many knots do we need to get to the goal of there can be no criticism of Israel, ever? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-zionism/1018840/232 "2025-05-29T12:25:18Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > OK, you got me. I confess I don’t know where he spoke. I put in “military post” because I thought it was generic enough. It could have been a school, a convention center, or somebody’s back yard. That’s not relevant to the point of his story. For real. There are plenty of sharp, legitimate criticisms to make of the atrocities being committed by the IDF. “A monk told me that the girlfriends of IDF soldiers told him that their boyfriends told them that the IDF told them that Palestinians don’t deserve empathy” is not the winning argument you think it is. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-zionism/1018840/233 "2025-05-29T13:27:20Z")
Yep. The IOF in reality is bad enough without making up stories about them brainwashing their recruits. If that were remotely true, it certainly didn’t take with all the ex-soldiers protesting the current actions of the institution. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-zionism/1018840/234 "2025-05-29T13:37:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think the WB behavior is the biggest giveaway that this Israeli government has no real interest in long term peace and security. And if not, then there’s no chance of a good outcome in Gaza either under this government. And right on cue: > **[Israel announces major expansion of settlements in occupied West Bank](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1j5954edlno)** > > The biggest such move in years is condemned by the Palestinian presidency as a "dangerous escalation". ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-zionism/1018840/235 "2025-05-29T13:39:50Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Yep. The IOF in reality is bad enough without making up stories about them brainwashing their recruits. If that were remotely true, it certainly didn’t take with all the ex-soldiers protesting the current actions of the institution. And, per the story, it apparently doesn’t work on women, either, despite them getting the identical IDF training as the men. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-zionism/1018840/236 "2025-05-29T13:52:17Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > The Levant/Israel/Palestine are one of the places that hybrid Sapiens/Neanderthal remains have been found so I feel very confident in declaring that the area has _always_ been a “mix” of different groups and types of people. A lot of whom would not want to admit they are actually related to a greater or lesser degree. When it comes right down to it, Judaism is survivorship bias of a Canaanite population that somehow went from polytheism in line with the other groups in the area to a strict monotheism that denied even the existence of other gods and whose historical importance was amplified by the elevation of one specific preacher to a full blown new religion of far more historical importance in a hotbed of mystic cults and cultural mixing. I’m tired of arguments based on what is sometimes straight up myth. The argument needs to be rule of law, and while you can argue whether or not Israel should have been set up the way it was, it is the situation we have now. Which would be a lot easier to support if they weren’t doing all they were doing in the West Bank, much less Gaza. But apparently it’d be too hard to remove illegal settlements, not bomb hospitals, take pot shots at foreign diplomats, and kill aid workers. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-zionism/1018840/237 "2025-05-29T14:07:36Z")
Look, the lecture was mostly about breathing techniques and body channels. His Israel experience took up maybe a minute. Buddhists have no beef with Judaism or any religion for that matter. You could worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster and they’d be cool with it. _It was not a concentrated effort to discredit Zionism._ Goodness, no wonder Zionists have such an image problem. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-zionism/1018840/238 "2025-05-29T14:12:50Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Look, the lecture was mostly about breathing techniques and body channels. His Israel experience took up maybe a minute. Buddhists have no beef with Judaism or any religion for that matter. You could worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster and they’d be cool with it. _It was not a concentrated effort to discredit Zionism._ > > Goodness, no wonder Zionists have such an image problem. The fuck are you talking about? You’re the one who brought the story up. If it’s trivial, that’s on you, not on anyone else. You think this is proof that Zionists have an image problem, when @MrDibble and I are among the people calling you out for the story? Really? And this: > [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Buddhists have no beef with Judaism or any religion for that matter is especially ridiculous. Buddhists as a group don’t have beef, sure–but individual Buddhists can be just as antisemitic as individual Christians or gay people or southpaws or leftists or pronatalists or conspiracy theorists or programmers or whatever group you wanna talk about. Buddhists aren’t immune to bigotry any more than anyone else is. You told a dumb story. You got called on it. You can either re-think the story and examine it critically, or you can double down and lash out at anyone who questions it. Up to you. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-zionism/1018840/239 "2025-05-29T14:13:53Z")
Truly outrageous. How can anyone be comfortable that a government aiding in such oppression and brutality in the West Bank is somehow perfectly calibrating their actions in Gaza? It’s ludicrous. This government is openly corrupt and criminal in the West Bank, and they’re almost certainly similarly corrupt and criminal in Gaza. I only retain the “almost certainly” qualifier because it’s so hard to determine what’s actually taking place in Gaza. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-zionism/1018840/240 "2025-05-29T14:17:10Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > So anyone who criticizes Israel is an antisemite, but if that person can’t be dismissed as such because he’s been the PM of Israel, his words carry no weight because he’s a corrupt criminal scumbag. Mostly wondering if someone like that really knows right from wrong. I would say criticism of Israel is pretty healthy considering there are plenty of anti-government protests there, but obviously not healthy enough. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-zionism/1018840.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-zionism/1018840.md?page=13)