# I pit Zionism **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 27, 2025, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-zionism/1018840 "2025-05-27T02:30:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2025, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-zionism/1018840/281 "2025-06-15T15:41:43Z")
I know that marriages performed outside Israel are recognized. I still think it’s a sign of religion having to much power in secular matters. I want to add that if a Jew wants to marry a muslim, I fully understand that this can be problematic to do in a synagogue or mosque and a civil union may be the only option But the fact that not even civil inter faith marriages are possible tells me something about the power religion has. It’s somewhat similar to the abortion trips Irish women made to the U.K. > [@Broomstick](#): > > This could get complicated if certain people in the current Israeli administration get their wish and can declare anyone who doesn’t meet their standard of Jewishness (basically, Orthodox or more strict) declared non-Jew, AIUI, they have been trying this with DNA tests for some time. The right of return should only be for the right kind of Jew. Some are – indeed – more equal than others. ---
**Author:** ![fedman1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e495f1/32.png) [@fedman1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman1)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2025, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-zionism/1018840/282 "2025-06-20T06:42:59Z")
didn’t Begin say the US Amy was bad because it had Blacks in it? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2025, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-zionism/1018840/283 "2025-06-20T08:05:50Z")
> [@fedman1](#): > > Begin say the US Amy was bad because it had Blacks in it I don’t know, do you have a cite for it? I _do_ know Begin was the guy [Albert Einstein and Hannah Arendt called](https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/2014-12-04/ty-article/.premium/1948-n-y-times-letter-by-einstein-slams-begin/0000017f-e28e-d38f-a57f-e6de6e7d0000) a Fascist terrorist while warning about what his political leadership would bring (spoiler alert: precisely the current shitshow) ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2025, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-zionism/1018840/284 "2025-07-01T17:21:30Z")
IIRC even marriages between Jews in Israel aren’t valid unless the ceremony is performed by an Orthodox rabbi. Reform Jews have to leave the country to get married to each other according to their own religious customs. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2025, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-zionism/1018840/285 "2025-07-01T17:24:14Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > An officiant in _Utah?_ > > Not what I expected, wonder how that came about. US States vary in their laws about tele-marriages. I’m guessing Utah is one of those with liberal laws that will recognize a marriage as long as the officiant is physically in Utah, regardless of where the couple is. I know a rabbi who has married Israelis from Montana. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2025, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-zionism/1018840/286 "2025-07-20T20:03:52Z")
Interesting article on American Jews and American Jews’ Zionism in the NYT: > **[Opinion | Why American Jews No Longer Understand One Another](https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/20/opinion/antisemitism-american-jews-israel-mamdani.html?unlocked_article_code=1.X08.ZGCX.bQlSzIqcQgF-&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare)** > > The consensus that held them together for generations is breaking down. > To call Mamdani an anti-Zionist is accurate, but the power of his position is that it is thoroughly, even banally, liberal. “I’m not comfortable supporting any state that has a hierarchy of citizenship on the basis of religion or anything else,” he said. There are ethnonationalists who might object to that sentiment. But the flourishing of American Jews is built atop that foundation. > Others see the link as more direct and causal. “ I think absolutely the weekly reports of Israeli soldiers shooting on Palestinians who are in long lines to get food is a calamity for Jews,” May said. “It’s a spiritual crisis. It’s a moral and political crisis and I do think it has tangible effects on Jewish security.” ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2025, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-zionism/1018840/287 "2025-07-20T20:23:28Z")
It does address the divide in American Jews regarding the whole mess. ---
**Author:** ![fedman1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e495f1/32.png) [@fedman1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman1)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-zionism/1018840/288 "2025-07-28T23:11:38Z")
sorry, losing memory, it was Moshe Dayan–see below A statement attributed to **Moshe Dayan** , a former Israeli Defense Minister, caused controversy when he reportedly said that the quality of the American armed forces had deteriorated because they relied so heavily on Black soldiers. ---
**Author:** ![Sooner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sooner/32/7875_2.png) [@Sooner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sooner)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2025, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-zionism/1018840/289 "2025-11-11T06:36:19Z")
To paint with a broad brush. My take away - a European problem got shoved upon the Arabs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-zionism/1018840.md?page=14)