# I praise Roadfood and pit Liberal **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 25, 2005, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-praise-roadfood-and-pit-liberal/309774 "2005-06-25T06:33:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2005, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-praise-roadfood-and-pit-liberal/309774/21 "2005-06-26T00:58:02Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > The best of leaders is unknown; > next best is one that is praised; > next best is one that is feared; > next best is one that is despised. That may apply to leaders. But truth-value is not a mere popularity contest. > [@Aeschines](#): > > I have no bone to pick with the real you, just the character that you play on this site. But that character does bring down the quality of the site more than just a notch (especially the forum most important to me, GD), and I’m just really sick of it. If you are venting, fine. If you want to improve the quality of the board, I would recommend that you restate the OP with greater politeness and less rancor. (Feel free to elaborate or modify as appropriate, of course.) If nothing else, it might be handy to delineate, “Practices that obfuscate”, as well as, “Practices that tend to derail threads”, in addition to, “Appropriate behavior for those seeking to push a particular world-view”. (I suppose that you’ve described, “Alleged attention-seeking acts”.) ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2005, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-praise-roadfood-and-pit-liberal/309774/22 "2005-06-26T01:07:44Z")
Actually, I’ve really been enjoying **Lib** ’s posts of the last few weeks or so. Sometimes I think he’s a real jerk, but not of late. An undeserved Pitting. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2005, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-praise-roadfood-and-pit-liberal/309774/23 "2005-06-26T01:44:28Z")
> [@Measure for Measure](#): > > That may apply to leaders. But truth-value is not a mere popularity contest.If you are venting, fine. Where some people get the notion that **Lib** is a Knight for Truth on these boards is unknown to me. He seems to me to be an obfuscator, not a clarifier. But even if we grant that he’s always correct, the fact still remains that there is more to message board participation than correctness. There’s kindness, clear writing, and persuasiveness so that people are actually able to make sense of what you write and use it. **Lib** is a value-subtractor on the boards, not an -adder. And I didn’t write this OP to _try_ him on his behavior in that thread. I wrote it to register my personal disgust and desire for him to stop detracting from the boards. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2005, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-praise-roadfood-and-pit-liberal/309774/24 "2005-06-26T02:12:33Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > …the fact still remains that there is more to message board participation than correctness. There’s kindness, clear writing, and persuasiveness so that people are actually able to make sense of what you write and use it. Well said. In a word: communication. There is also, “Proper substantiation (my pet peeve, though I don’t think Lib has a problem here), timely explication and elaboration”. I was just suggesting that if the OP was toned down a little it would advance your POV better (though admittedly it would be less diverting for some of the untargeted). ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2005, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-praise-roadfood-and-pit-liberal/309774/25 "2005-06-26T02:44:16Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > If you could just get your mental dick out of your hand for 10 minutes, you might actually be able to make something of what is universally acknowledged by the board to be a good bit of intelligence. Minor quibble: I, for one, think Lib is a dum-dum. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2005, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-praise-roadfood-and-pit-liberal/309774/26 "2005-06-26T03:07:20Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > I see. Sorry. I was never very good in history class. No problem, neither was I. Thanks. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2005, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-praise-roadfood-and-pit-liberal/309774/27 "2005-06-26T03:48:07Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > He _is_ a disruptive asshole in the thread, there’s no question about that. I question that. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2005, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-praise-roadfood-and-pit-liberal/309774/28 "2005-06-26T04:16:47Z")
> [@Measure for Measure](#): > > I was just suggesting that if the OP was toned down a little it would advance your POV better (though admittedly it would be less diverting for some of the untargeted). I respect what you’re saying, and in most cases I would agree. But **Lib** has been pitted so many times, and I’m not advancing any new material. Others have examined his behaviors and character flaws better than I can here. The OP, rather, is my personal vote for him to clean up his act, or, alternatively, for the mods to call him on it (no, I’m not calling for a banning, just a recognition of the problem and telling the problem person to stop; I think he would if the mods slapped his wrist a few times). And that may very well mean it’s a futile or useless OP. In that case, just call it simple venting, as suggested in a post above. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2005, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-praise-roadfood-and-pit-liberal/309774/29 "2005-06-26T04:20:31Z")
> [@Tracy Lord](#): > > Actually, I’ve really been enjoying **Lib** ’s posts of the last few weeks or so. Sometimes I think he’s a real jerk, but not of late. An undeserved Pitting. In general, I agree. Lib is a real + to this board- _when and if he doesn’t have his head up his ass._ That seems to vary wildly. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2005, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-praise-roadfood-and-pit-liberal/309774/30 "2005-06-26T05:51:07Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > In general, I agree. Lib is a real + to this board- _when and if he doesn’t have his head up his ass._ That seems to vary wildly. That’s the catch, **DrDeth**. It’s not like he doesn’t offer some real insights to the board. It often comes from weirdly contradictory directions, rationally and interpersonally, but he stays within the rules. Bends the hell outta them frequently, but he seems to fight honestly, even his most bewildering shifts in opinion. He just pinballs all over the landscape. After years of **Lib** (in all the permutations of the username), I’ve finally settled on viewing his posts through a Lewis Carroll framework: everything’s skewed off-kilter but there’s Jungian fascination, sorting out the underlying symbolism. Veb ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2005, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-praise-roadfood-and-pit-liberal/309774/31 "2005-06-26T06:28:17Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > That’s the catch, **DrDeth**. > > After years of **Lib** (in all the permutations of the username), I’ve finally settled on viewing his posts through a Lewis Carroll framework: everything’s skewed off-kilter but there’s Jungian fascination, sorting out the underlying symbolism. > > Veb Hmm, I never thought of it that way. Thank you, that will lead to my reading \*\*Lib’\*\*s posts in a rather different light. Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2005, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-praise-roadfood-and-pit-liberal/309774/32 "2005-06-26T06:40:50Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > …but he stays within the rules. Bends the hell outta them frequently, but he seems to fight honestly, even his most bewildering shifts in opinion. Hello, my Mod. Could it not be the case that **Liberal’s** personal way of “bending the hell outta the rules” has come to be accepted by the Mods as “just what **Liberal** does” and thus not considered for adjustment? In other words, he’s bent the rules over time, taking inch by inch with the occasional yard, so that he has his own personal bubble outside them? It certainly seems that way to me. Here’s another point. Which is worse? A poster who flagrantly breaks a rule once a month or a poster who strides right up to the line and pisses on it every day? I admit the answer is complicated. If you don’t slap down the flagrant rule breaker, then the explicitly stated rules, ipso facto, are not being enforced, and others will be more liable to break them, and disorder will ensue. At the same time, the person pissing on the line daily will, as a single poster, have a much worse effect on the board than the monthly flagrant violator. And **Liberal** has just such a negative, disruptive effect. He is pitted regularly, not by people who just don’t like him, but people who complain about his affect on the board. I think the totality of his behavior should be considered and action taken accordingly. IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2005, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-praise-roadfood-and-pit-liberal/309774/33 "2005-06-26T07:02:26Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Hmm, I never thought of it that way. Thank you, that will lead to my reading \*\*Lib’\*\*s posts in a rather different light. Interesting. Sigh. Don’t assign more weight than that it’s worth, **DrDeth**. And it ain’t worth much. Another analogy that’s occured to me is a Blackberry users’ manual translated from Finno-Ugric. Immediate use is implied, but it may involve close familiarity with Norse sagas, torturous translational quibbles and probably discursions about reindeer herding. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2005, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-praise-roadfood-and-pit-liberal/309774/34 "2005-06-26T09:18:07Z")
Myself, the image that comes to mind is the Escher print (so cheerfully parodied by _The Simpsons_) of the bewildering sets of staircases, each seperately rational and functional, but melded in an impossilbe affront to reason and perpsective. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2005, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-praise-roadfood-and-pit-liberal/309774/35 "2005-06-26T09:26:11Z")
I’d rather have fifty **Lib** s than one **Aeschines** on these boards. In fact, fifty **Lib** s would be rather interesting, don’t you say? Imagine the discussions they’d have. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2005, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-praise-roadfood-and-pit-liberal/309774/36 "2005-06-26T09:33:11Z")
No. No, I won’t imagine them, and you can’t make me! ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2005, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-praise-roadfood-and-pit-liberal/309774/37 "2005-06-26T09:54:35Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > I’d rather have fifty **Lib** s than one **Aeschines** on these boards. In fact, fifty **Lib** s would be rather interesting, don’t you say? Imagine the discussions they’d have. Are you out of your mind? All the giant squids would commit suicide just for the endless nitpicking! ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2005, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-praise-roadfood-and-pit-liberal/309774/38 "2005-06-26T10:09:25Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Are you out of your mind? All the giant squids would commit suicide just for the endless nitpicking! So? What have the giant squids done for you lately? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2005, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-praise-roadfood-and-pit-liberal/309774/39 "2005-06-26T10:21:21Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > So? What have the giant squids done for you lately? Well, I want to visit Japan someday and giant squids are food for some whales, without giant squids the whales would die and I would like to try a whale burger someday. 🙂😉 [sub]I am really kidding on eating a whale burger, but the Japanese are really doing stuff like that![/sub] ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2005, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-praise-roadfood-and-pit-liberal/309774/40 "2005-06-26T11:04:04Z")
I like **Lib**. He’s refreshing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-praise-roadfood-and-pit-liberal/309774.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-praise-roadfood-and-pit-liberal/309774.md?page=3)