# I put the author of "The Secret" and everyone who quotes it. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 8, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183 "2012-04-08T16:27:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/61 "2012-04-09T19:00:44Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > **Stoid** aside, I’m curious: what’s supposed to happen if, say, you sue me for a hundred thousand dollars – or you’re up against me for Olympic gold, or that big promotion at work, or whatever – and you’re of course wishing for victory with all your might, but I of course want to prevail and so wish for victory right back. Who wins? The person with the stronger vibrations? This might be just as nutty as The Secret, but the idea of the universe lining itself up to obey my whims makes me quite uneasy. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/62 "2012-04-09T19:08:40Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > This might be just as nutty as The Secret, but the idea of the universe lining itself up to obey my whims makes me quite uneasy. If I could get the universe to obey _my_ whims, everybody should be very scared. My whims involve things like crashing a 500-km asteroid into the Earth and boiling the oceans because my feet are cold. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/63 "2012-04-09T19:13:36Z")
Maybe that’s what makes me uneasy - if my whim is to win a couple million in a lottery, maybe someone else’s whim is to kill me when I merge in front of them in traffic. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/64 "2012-04-09T19:28:28Z")
Fortunately for all of us, _very_ few astronomers believe in things like The Secret. I can’t speak for homicidal maniacs, though. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/65 "2012-04-09T19:47:53Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Maybe that’s what makes me uneasy - if my whim is to win a couple million in a lottery, maybe someone else’s whim is to kill me when I merge in front of them in traffic. :eek: Indeed, sometimes people’s luck arrives all at once, good and bad: > [@](#): > > **6. _Cynthia Jay-Brennan_** > > The odds of cocktail waitress Cynthia Jay-Brennan winning the Megabucks Jackpot on a slot machine at the Desert Inn in Las Vegas on January 27, 2000 were one in seven million. Her prize was just a few bucks shy of $35 million, a life-changing event for anyone. In a horrifying twist of fate, her luck didn’t last, as she was paralyzed from the neck down in a car accident a few weeks later when a drunk driver rear ended her Camaro (her sister, tragically, was killed in the collision). That story stuck with me because she won it a few days after I left the hotel where she won it, where I had played the same machines. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/66 "2012-04-09T20:25:54Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > Oprah’s OWN network is failing. She must have forgot what she read in _The Secret_. No, not at all. She is failing because – being, when all is said and done, a Negro – she secretly wants to fail. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/67 "2012-04-09T20:27:27Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > If I could get the universe to obey _my_ whims, everybody should be very scared. My whims involve things like crashing a 500-km asteroid into the Earth and boiling the oceans because my feet are cold. [Have I got a church for you!](http://www.subgenius.com/bigfist/classic/classics/X0003_botsg-intro.html)😃 ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/68 "2012-04-09T20:29:52Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, not at all. She is failing because – being, when all is said and done, a Negro – she secretly wants to fail. 😉 I’d bet it’s more about wanting a good excuse to take a fucking break… ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/69 "2012-04-09T23:20:07Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > “Fault” implies someone did something wrong, leading to something bad happening. That’s your assessment, but that’s _ **not** _ the way someone who believes in the law of attraction and the spiritual ideas I’m talking about would view it. It’s not about fault, or blame, or wrong, or bad. “Fault” doesn’t have to imply that someone did something wrong. It can also be used simply to explain where the responsibility for a negative result lies. Something can be my “fault” without my having done anything “wrong” in causing that bad thing to happen. Now, if someone says I had a miscarriage because of my own desires, let’s not say they’re saying it’s my “fault,” but clearly they _are_ saying there is something I did which brought the miscarriage about. Now, why would they tell me this if they were not intending to imply that, if I were to refrain from doing this in the future, I would not have miscarriages in the future? No talk of “fault” here still, as you can see. But there is definitely the recommendation: “Change the way you think or feel, and you won’t have a miscarriage next time you concieve.” That is not only false, but if I believe it, then I am basically doomed to think that any miscarriage I have in the future is–yes–my _fault_. It doesn’t matter that the word “fault” wasn’t used in the exposition of _The Secret_ to me. What I will think, inevitably, if I am the least bit rational, is “I knew changing my thinking would prevent miscarriages, but I didn’t succeed in preventing miscarriages, so I didn’t succeed in changing my thinking.” Doing X when it will lead to Y, where Y is bad, and where you know X will lead to Y, and where you know Y is bad, and where you could refrain from doing X, makes Y your “fault” by definition. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/70 "2012-04-10T00:04:33Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > What I will think, inevitably, if I am the least bit rational, is “I knew changing my thinking would prevent miscarriages, but I didn’t succeed in preventing miscarriages, so I didn’t succeed in changing my thinking.” Doing X when it will lead to Y, where Y is bad, and where you know X will lead to Y, and where you know Y is bad, and where you could refrain from doing X, makes Y your “fault” by definition. I explained how the law of attraction works, how those who teach it mean it to be understood to work. While what you say is technically true, the practical fact is that people perceive personal responsibility in different ways; when somone chooses the word “fault”, they generally mean “whose bad (choice/behavior/thought/decision) led to this fucked up result?”. If they want to know whose great (idea/thought/beahvior/choice) led to this marvelous result, they don’t say: “Whose fault is this delicious meal?” Whose fault is it that this company doubled its profits? Whose fault is it that this child is so healthy and smart and good-natured? Whose fault is it that this house is so beautifully decorated? And you know it. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/71 "2012-04-10T00:34:18Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > I explained how the law of attraction works, how those who teach it mean it to be understood to work. > > While what you say is technically true, the practical fact is that people perceive personal responsibility in different ways; when somone chooses the word “fault”, they generally mean “whose bad (choice/behavior/thought/decision) led to this fucked up result?”. If they want to know whose great (idea/thought/beahvior/choice) led to this marvelous result, they don’t say: “Whose fault is this delicious meal?” Whose fault is it that this company doubled its profits? Whose fault is it that this child is so healthy and smart and good-natured? Whose fault is it that this house is so beautifully decorated? > > And you know it. Yes, I know it–and I said it. But I don’t understand the relevance of your comment. If anything, what you’ve just said would tend to lend _support_ to my argument that The Secret _does_ inevitably and irresponsibly lead to people placing fault (_fault_) on themselves incorrectly and unnecessarily. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/72 "2012-04-10T01:09:10Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Assuming for a moment that it does work as advertised using the lottery to disprove it doesn’t work. Because no one actually expects to win the lottery they simply hope and pray and wish they don’t really expect, and genuine expectation is key. Taking it outside the realm of the fantastical for a moment, if you think about it you’ll see that people really do get what they genuinely expect. Do you think anyone expects their child to get cancer and die? Because that actually happens to people, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/73 "2012-04-10T01:11:07Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > But I don’t understand the relevance of your comment. If anything, what you’ve just said would tend to lend _support_ to my argument that The Secret _does_ inevitably and irresponsibly lead to people placing fault (_fault_) on themselves incorrectly and unnecessarily. That’s because you’ve switched horses. fault = negative, bad, wrong, inadequate, erroneous, fucked up. vs. Responsible = responsible They aren’t the same. I didn’t say there was no responsibility, I was trying to explain that the\*\*\* value judgment\*\*\* (represented by the word “fault”) on one’s own (thoughts/beliefs/focus/fears/mental and emotional energy) was not built into the law of attraction itself and shouldn’t be seen that way. I explained that: > [@Stoid](#): > > …what appears to be negative (disease, war, suffering of whatever kind) is just experience, no better or worse than any other experience, and all are chosen just for the purpose of having the experience. > > So when people blame people who aare suffering from terrible things, it’s offbase even within the belief system that the Secret promotes. That belief system would say that people experiencing extreme negatives have done so either because of fear or because it’s an experience for the spirit. Neither of which would probably be received by the sufferer a whole lot better, but actually are not quite so flippantly dismissive of a person’s individual struggles. And the response was: > [@iftheresaway](#): > > And how is that not saying that … in other words, that it was my **fault**? > [@](#): > > Fault" implies someone did something **wrong** , leading to something bad happening. That’s your assessment, but that’s _ **not** _ the way someone who believes in the law of attraction and the spiritual ideas I’m talking about would view it. **It’s not about fault, or blame, or wrong, or bad.** You then said: > [@Frylock](#): > > “Fault” **doesn’t have to imply that someone did something wrong.** It can also be used simply to explain where the responsibility for a negative result lies. Something can be my “fault” without my having done anything “wrong” in causing that bad thing to happen. > [@](#): > > …when somone chooses the word “fault”, they generally mean “whose _ **bad** _ (choice/behavior/thought/decision) led to this fucked up result?”. And now you say: > [@Frylock](#): > > But I don’t understand the relevance of your comment. If anything, what you’ve just said would tend to lend _support_ to my argument that The Secret _does_ inevitably and irresponsibly lead to people placing fault (_fault_) on themselves incorrectly and unnecessarily. It looks to me like you’re changing your point, moving away from the issue of any value judgment inherent in the use of the word “fault” and on to the issue of whether assigning any kind of responsibility (via the operation of the law of attraction) will make people feel responsible. Are you taking issue with “fault” representing **a negative value judgment** on a person’s responsibility, or something else? ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/74 "2012-04-10T01:14:20Z")
Also, I think Oprah buys into and promotes this stuff so she can convince herself that she somehow manifested her good fortune. It’s a lot easier to feel like you deserve it that way, vs. having to admit that a huge portion of it was luck. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/75 "2012-04-10T01:23:25Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Do you think anyone expects their child to get cancer and die? Because that actually happens to people, you know. You appear to be asking if, according to the law of attraction, someone’s child contracting cancer and dying is a direct result of that person expecting their child to get cancer and die, the answer is likely not, because people don’t generally expect their children to contact cancer and die. But that isnt’ the only way that the law of attraction would operate to lead to that result. The most obvious way it might is through fear, and there are others - if one embraces the law as true, it becomes a matter of searching one’s own thoughts, feelings, speech, focus, fear, emotion to see where connections might lie. Everyone has to answer these questions for themselves and if they can’t do it alone but want to understand more, they should seek a teacher or read some books on the subject. Something a little more in-depth and less one-dimensional than “The Secret”. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/76 "2012-04-10T01:27:01Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Also, I think Oprah buys into and promotes this stuff so she can convince herself that she somehow manifested her good fortune. It’s a lot easier to feel like you deserve it that way, vs. having to admit that a huge portion of it was luck. Actually I think Oprah feels that Oprah earned it through hard work, talent, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/77 "2012-04-10T01:31:02Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Actually I think Oprah feels that Oprah earned it through hard work, talent, etc. I’m sure she does, and it’s partly true (course, having extraordinary talent is a bit of luck right there). But she’s smart enough to know that something lifted her above everyone else who works hard and has talent. It’s pretty convenient to be able to say that it all happened because you had the right attitude. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/78 "2012-04-10T01:32:57Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > You appear to be asking if, according to the law of attraction, someone’s child contracting cancer and dying is a direct result of that person expecting their child to get cancer and die, the answer is likely not, because people don’t generally expect their children to contact cancer and die. But that isnt’ the only way that the law of attraction would operate to lead to that result. The most obvious way it might is through fear, and there are others - if one embraces the law as true, it becomes a matter of searching one’s own thoughts, feelings, speech, focus, fear, emotion to see where connections might lie. Everyone has to answer these questions for themselves and if they can’t do it alone but want to understand more, they should seek a teacher or read some books on the subject. Something a little more in-depth and less one-dimensional than “The Secret”. So you’re saying that people who fear that something bad might happen make their children get cancer and die? Nice. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/79 "2012-04-10T01:52:14Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Are you taking issue with “fault” representing **a negative value judgment** on a person’s responsibility, or something else? The Secret inevitably leads any (minimally rational) person to unnecessarily and incorrectly find fault with themselves. The Secret accomplishes this while carefully avoiding the use of the term “fault” itself. “And you know it.” ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/80 "2012-04-10T01:59:04Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > So you’re saying that people who fear that something bad might happen make their children get cancer and die? Nice. No, I’m explaining how the law of attraction is supposed to operate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183.md?page=5)