# I put the author of "The Secret" and everyone who quotes it. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 8, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183 "2012-04-08T16:27:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/81 "2012-04-10T02:01:10Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > No, I’m explaining how the law of attraction is supposed to operate. > [@](#): > > You appear to be asking if, according to the law of attraction, someone’s child contracting cancer and dying is a direct result of that person expecting their child to get cancer and die, the answer is likely not, because people don’t generally expect their children to contact cancer and die. **But that isnt’ the only way that the law of attraction would operate to lead to that result. The most obvious way it might is through fear** , OK, what part did you explain that I didn’t understand? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/82 "2012-04-10T02:13:57Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > The Secret inevitably leads any (minimally rational) person to **unnecessarily** and **incorrectly** find fault with themselves. > > The Secret accomplishes this while carefully avoiding the use of the term “fault” itself. > > “And you know it.” Still not clear… taking issue with whether the law of attraction operates as advertised? Complaining that if it does, people end up feeling guilty? Both? Neither? Complaining that if people _believe_ it does, they end up feeling guilty? Complaining that people feel guilty when they shouldn’t even if they are responsible? And all of this is inevitable? I don’t know what you’re driving at in relation to taking issue with my explanation of why fault was a bad choice of words, and that’s where you started. As for the rest, I’ve known a lot of people over a lot of years (since roughly 1975) who embrace the ideas behind the law of attraction to one extent or another. I can’t think of a single one who ended up paralyzed with self-loathing because they suddenly understood how blameworthy they were.(Quite the reverse) The only people I’ve ever seen take that kind of attitude were people who didn’t ever believe the law of attraction worked to begin with, they just felt insulted by people who did believe it sharing it with them, whereupon they decided to feel attacked and got defensive. Your phrasing is interesting, too: “The Secret inevitably leads any (minimally rational) person to **unnecessarily** and **incorrectly** find fault with themselves.” “the Secret **accomplishes** this.” The Secret is a book. If anyone comes away from that book feeling that they are at fault for anything, the book didn’t “accomplish” it. The book didn’t do anything at all except present ideas, and I sure hope you arne’t going to start _blaming_ books for _making_ people feel or do or believe or think anything at all. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/83 "2012-04-10T02:17:06Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > OK, what part did you explain that I didn’t understand? Everything you didn’t want to, and I expect that will continue. Enjoy. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/84 "2012-04-10T02:18:21Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > I’m sure she does, and it’s partly true (course, having extraordinary talent is a bit of luck right there). But she’s smart enough to know that something lifted her above everyone else who works hard and has talent. It’s pretty convenient to be able to say that it all happened because you had the right attitude. “Convenient”? Whatever… ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/85 "2012-04-10T02:33:29Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Everything you didn’t want to, and I expect that will continue. Enjoy. That’s a weird thing to say. I quoted exactly what you said and asked how I misunderstood it. Are you not able to explain that? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/86 "2012-04-10T02:39:07Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Still not clear… > taking issue with whether the law of attraction operates as advertised? Yes. > [@](#): > > Complaining that if it does, people end up feeling guilty? No > [@](#): > > Complaining that if people _believe_ it does, they end up feeling guilty? Yes–with the caveat that self-judgments of guilt are the inevitable rational outcome given what the Secret (as explained by you) claims. > [@](#): > > As for the rest, I’ve known a lot of people over a lot of years (since roughly 1975) who embrace the ideas behind the law of attraction to one extent or another. I can’t think of a single one who ended up paralyzed with self-loathing because they suddenly understood how blameworthy they were.(Quite the reverse) Then your friends lack minimal rationality. > [@](#): > > I sure hope you arne’t going to start _blaming_ books for _making_ people feel or do or believe or think anything at all. Absolutely I affirm that books can make people feel and believe things. I do not know how you can deny it. It’s almost the only thing books are good for. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/87 "2012-04-10T02:47:17Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Absolutely I affirm that books can make people feel and believe things. I do not know how you can deny it. It’s almost the only thing books are good for. Oh, oh, I know this one! This is where we learn The Lesson that no one/nothing **makes** you feel anything; your reactions are your own choice. (I suggest lobbing The Secret with great force at the head of someone engaging in this sort of sophistry and asserting that they chose to feel pain.) BTW, this “law of attraction” bullshit is useful in making people take responsibility for their own stupid choices in life and in taking a hard look at the sort of stuff they’re wasting time/energy/headspace on. Sadly, most people I’ve seen look into it are great at projecting onto others about all the stuff those other people should be taking responsibility for. A quote from an older book about looking after the log in one’s own eye before picking on someone else about their mote comes to mind… ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/88 "2012-04-10T02:53:51Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > That’s a weird thing to say. I quoted exactly what you said and asked how I misunderstood it. Are you not able to explain that? I mean, really, I was thinking about this some more. It seems odd that when I take the philosophy to what seems to be a logical conclusion, you tell me that I’m willfully not understanding it, when really that’s not it at all. I’m trying to understand how it is that you arrive at a different conclusion than the one I did. If there’s a flaw in my thinking, I’m not getting it. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/89 "2012-04-10T02:53:52Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > You appear to be asking if, according to the law of attraction, someone’s child contracting cancer and dying is a direct result of that person expecting their child to get cancer and die, the answer is likely not, because people don’t generally expect their children to contact cancer and die. But that isnt’ the only way that the law of attraction would operate to lead to that result. The most obvious way it might is through fear, and there are others - if one embraces the law as true, it becomes a matter of searching one’s own thoughts, feelings, speech, focus, fear, emotion to see where connections might lie. Everyone has to answer these questions for themselves and if they can’t do it alone but want to understand more, they should seek a teacher or read some books on the subject. Something a little more in-depth and less one-dimensional than “The Secret”. Your own beliefs about the laws of attraction are one thing, but if “The Secret” doesn’t explain these laws properly, you ought to be right on board with this pitting, because The Secret very much lays blame directly on people for the bad things that happen to them. This thread isn’t pitting the “laws of attraction,” it’s pitting “The Secret” and the people who take it as gospel. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/90 "2012-04-10T03:09:59Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > but if “The Secret” doesn’t explain these laws properly, you ought to be right on board with this pitting, because The Secret very much lays blame directly on people for the bad things that happen to them. This thread isn’t pitting the “laws of attraction,” it’s pitting “The Secret” and the people who take it as gospel. Big “if” there at the beginning, and I disagree that The Secret failed to properly explain the laws. It failed to be very effective at helping people understand how they can take more control of their random thoughts, but as far as how it works, I don’t think it got it wrong. And so far, have we heard from anyone who [ul] [li] actually read the book[/li][li] embraced the ideas as true[/li][li] ended up feeling shitty for being so terrible and creating such terrible things?[/li][/ul] I assume there are such people, many people in this thread seem pretty convinced they exist, but so far I don’t think we’ve heard from _them_. Who we have heard from are people who heard half-assed regurgitations from _other_ people, rejected it as bullshit out the gate, and then got angry anyway. They’re certainly entitled, but it hardly seems fair to bitch out \*the book \*for that. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/91 "2012-04-10T03:17:02Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Yes. Then why did you lead with an argument against my saying “fault” implies a negative? > [@](#): > > Yes–with the caveat that self-judgments of guilt are the inevitable rational outcome given what the Secret (as explained by you) claims. > Then your friends lack minimal rationality. Your confidence in yourself as the arbiter of what constitutes rationality is impressive. That’s some big shoes, there, pardner. > [@](#): > > Absolutely I affirm that books can make people feel and believe things. I do not know how you can deny it. It’s almost the only thing books are good for. Then how is it they don’t “make” everyone believe everything they say? Because they don’t make anyone do anything. Books present ideas. People can believe them or reject them, in part or in full, as they choose. If you honestly believe that books “make” people believe things, then you have very little respect for people’s ability to think and decide for themselves and a frightening faith in the power of books, to such a degree I would avoid them were I you. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/92 "2012-04-10T03:19:51Z")
Look at it this way, **Stoid**. I believe that The Secret is true–if I really really believe in something, it’ll happen to me. My kid gets cancer. I believe he’ll get well (in addition to doing the right things with medical care, and so forth). The kid dies. I am GOING to believe it’s my fault for not believing hard enough. The whole idea is beyond fucking ridiculous, and it’s going to hurt anyone who believes in its ridiculous bullshit and then crashes into the plain simple fact that there is bad luck and the universe does not give one tiny fuck about how hard you believe. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/93 "2012-04-10T03:20:51Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > BTW, this “law of attraction” bullshit is useful in making people take responsibility for their own stupid choices in life and in taking a hard look at the sort of stuff they’re wasting time/energy/headspace on. Indeed, which is why I find it amusing that so many people seem to have a problem with it. I’d MUCH rather be surrounded by people who believe that they are responsible for their lives than people who are constantly coming up with reasons why nothing is thier responsibility at all. Whatever gets you there, it’s a good place to be. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/94 "2012-04-10T03:27:38Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Look at it this way, **Stoid**. > > I believe that The Secret is true–if I really really believe in something, it’ll happen to me. > > My kid gets cancer. I believe he’ll get well (in addition to doing the right things with medical care, and so forth). The kid dies. > > I am GOING to believe it’s my fault for not believing hard enough. > > The whole idea is beyond fucking ridiculous, and it’s going to hurt anyone who believes in its ridiculous bullshit and then crashes into the plain simple fact that there is bad luck and the universe does not give one tiny fuck about how hard you believe. What is it you think you are shedding light on here? As I said, I haven’t really run across a whole lot of people who are trashed over their conviction that they gave their kid cancer, none, actually, but I’ve run into a lot of people who are fond of imagining that scenario as a damning of the idea of the law of attraction. In any case, I’ve explained what I came to explain. Carry on with the pitting… ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/95 "2012-04-10T03:43:14Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Indeed, which is why I find it amusing that so many people seem to have a problem with it. I’d MUCH rather be surrounded by people who believe that they are responsible for their lives than people who are constantly coming up with reasons why nothing is thier responsibility at all. Whatever gets you there, it’s a good place to be. You are guilty yourself of not accepting personal responsibility for the bad circumstances around you. We have seen this time and time and _ **time** _ again (and I emphasized the font the way you like to do, in order to help you get it). It’s the crooked judge’s fault! It’s your evil ex! It’s the scheming Appeals Court judge! Never, not even once, could it be poor, innocent **Stoid.** Ask any of the lawyers who tried to kindly give you advice in one of your numerous break down threads and see if they think you’ve taken responsibility for your own poor choices. So, we’re left with the fact that you-- based on your own criteria-- are not fit to discuss “The Secret.” You may have read the book, but you certainly don’t embrace and practice the ideas that it gives. ended up feeling shitty for being so terrible and creating such terrible things? ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/96 "2012-04-10T03:49:22Z")
Oops. That last line was because I originally copy and pasted her “criteria” on there, but only deleted part of it. See? That’s me accepting the err of my ways. I’m going to mentally wish that I don’t ever fuck up a post again. You’re welcome, Straight Dope. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/97 "2012-04-10T04:28:30Z")
I see your confusion persists, Diosa…well, so does my sympathy for your plight. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/98 "2012-04-10T05:12:43Z")
I don’t think **Diosa’s** confused at all. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/99 "2012-04-10T05:54:10Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > I see your confusion persists, Diosa…well, so does my sympathy for your plight. I think it’d be great if you actually answered people who successfully back you into a wall. Both **Diosa** and **Sarahfeena** have brought up points or questions and you suddenly do an about-face and disengage. I’m sure you think you appear to be focused on the topic and refusing to be side-tracked. However, I’ll say that it actually gives the impression that you _have no answer_ and are avoiding admitting that. You end up weakening your position and strengthening theirs. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/100 "2012-04-10T05:55:47Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > I think it’d be great if you actually answered people who successfully back you into a wall. Both **Diosa** and **Sarahfeena** have brought up points or questions and you suddenly do an about-face and disengage. Hey, that style plus her positive thinking _totally_ worked for her in court. Oh, wait. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183.md?page=6)