# I put the author of "The Secret" and everyone who quotes it. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 8, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183 "2012-04-08T16:27:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/161 "2012-04-12T18:56:23Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Of course there is: to preclude making it about _me_ in any respect. I shared my _knowledge_, which is all I was ever interested in sharing. What you assume or think you know is entirely about _you_, and I’m not interested in discussing _that_, either. Stoid, I’m genuinely interested in your _knowledge:_ let’s say Mince and I are, I dunno, set to fence each other for the championship; Mince wants to win, and so is believing and willing and otherwise using the Secret and the Law Of Attraction – and I’ve been doing likewise right back, repetitively writing down predictions of my expected victory in between visualizing a defeated Mince every time I fall asleep, or whatever. Who wins? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/162 "2012-04-12T20:04:02Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > I think what most people are having the biggest problem with here (aside from the fact that the concept is rather absurd) is that those that believe in The Secret may stop crediting it when bad things happen _to them_, but given the examples earlier in the thread, they don’t give any sign of disbelieving it when bad things happen _to other people_. This is pretty much an unavoidable consequence of the whole scheme. Assume person A is a believer in the Secret whose child has Cancer. This person follows all the techniques and wishes as strong as possible for their child’s recovery. If the child recovers from cancer, they say that my positive thoughts must have cured my child. If their child dies from cancer they know that they followed the Secret’s advice and will find other reasons for the death. Perhaps the child or their spouse had bad intentions, or perhaps reject the attraction Philosophy But if person B’s child dies, then since person A has no access to person B’s thoughts its easy for them to say that they were clearly negative and that is what caused the death. IF they had only been more positive like person A the child would have lived. Not that they were to blame or anything, they were just responsible. Which is cold comfort to person B. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/163 "2012-04-12T20:07:33Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Not that they were to blame or anything, they were just responsible. Bwa hahahahaha. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/164 "2012-04-12T20:14:59Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Stoid, I’m genuinely interested in your _knowledge:_ let’s say Mince and I are, I dunno, set to fence each other for the championship; Mince wants to win, and so is believing and willing and otherwise using the Secret and the Law Of Attraction – and I’ve been doing likewise right back, repetitively writing down predictions of my expected victory in between visualizing a defeated Mince every time I fall asleep, or whatever. Who wins? I do because I’m wishing for all of you to write me checks for $10,000 a piece. Start writing those checks people. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/165 "2012-04-12T20:59:33Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Stoid, I’m genuinely interested in your _knowledge:_ let’s say Mince and I are, I dunno, set to fence each other for the championship; Mince wants to win, and so is believing and willing and otherwise using the Secret and the Law Of Attraction – and I’ve been doing likewise right back, repetitively writing down predictions of my expected victory in between visualizing a defeated Mince every time I fall asleep, or whatever. Who wins? I have no clue. If you are asking me to explain how the law of attraction would operate in this scenario, the resources I linked to are a good starting place to understand more, if that’s your desire. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/166 "2012-04-12T21:08:56Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > I have no clue. > > If you are asking me to explain how the law of attraction would operate in this scenario, the resources I linked to are a good starting place to understand more, if that’s your desire. Er, yes; I phrased that badly. So if Frylock flips an ordinary coin, and Mince calls “heads” (and wishes for “heads,” and expects “heads”) while I call and wish for and expect “tails” – and Frylock plays contrarian by willing it to land right on the edge – is it that you have no clue how the law of attraction would, if true, operate in such a scenario? Or is it that you know, but would rather limit yourself to merely recommending the links? ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/167 "2012-04-12T21:24:00Z")
Here’s a condensed version of the thread. > **[Fundamental attribution error](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error)** > > In social psychology, fundamental attribution error, also known as correspondence bias or attribution effect, is a cognitive attribution bias where observers underemphasize situational and environmental factors for the behavior of an actor while overemphasizing dispositional or personality factors. In other words, observers tend to overattribute the behaviors of others to their personality (for example, he is late because he's selfish) and underattribute them to the situation or context (e.g. he ... [http://beaverbridges.co.uk/bridges-for-sale/](http://beaverbridges.co.uk/bridges-for-sale/) ---
**Author:** ![florez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@florez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/florez)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/168 "2012-04-12T21:34:26Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > So if Frylock flips an ordinary coin, and Mince calls “heads” (and wishes for “heads,” and expects “heads”) while I call and wish for and expect “tails” – and Frylock plays contrarian by willing it to land right on the edge – is it that you have no clue how the law of attraction would, if true, operate in such a scenario? Or is it that you know, but would rather limit yourself to merely recommending the links? Well, I checked into her links, so…if Frylock looks deeply into his eyes , reflecting from a mirror, and tells his reflection “I love you,” and, at the same time channels the feeling of gratitude, for the fulfilling of his request- for the coin to land right on the edge. The law of attraction will pick up on his positive feeling, and the gratitude, as if the coin had already landed as desired, and then make it become real. Right now, I am looking deeply into my own eyes reflecting from a mirror, and starting the process for a trial run. If all goes well, I will report back momentarily. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/169 "2012-04-12T22:28:10Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Er, yes; I phrased that badly. > > So if Frylock flips an ordinary coin, and Mince calls “heads” (and wishes for “heads,” and expects “heads”) while I call and wish for and expect “tails” – and Frylock plays contrarian by willing it to land right on the edge – is it that you have no clue how the law of attraction would, if true, operate in such a scenario? Or is it that you know, but would rather limit yourself to merely recommending the links? Well in that particular scenario? I don’t think the law of attraction would have much to do with any of it because nobody would be that invested in the outcome. In more complex scenarios where people are invested, there are too many different things which would be part of the final result, so I couldn’t make a call either way. And no, I’m not going to enumerate them - genuine interest can be satisfied by genuine study of the information available. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/170 "2012-04-12T22:37:33Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > But if person B’s child dies, then since person A has no access to person B’s thoughts its easy for them to say that they were clearly negative and that is what caused the death. IF they had only been more positive like person A the child would have lived. Not that they were to blame or anything, they were just responsible. Which is cold comfort to person B. This, in a nutshell, is how magical belief work. When the magic fails it’s a sign that the user has done something wrong rather than a reason to doubt the efficacy of magic. This is one area where I think Judeo-Christian mythology has it over a lot of other religions. Shit happens. Bad things happen to good people. Who knows why? ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/171 "2012-04-12T23:40:22Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > In more complex scenarios where people are invested, there are too many different things which would be part of the final result, so I couldn’t make a call either way. And no, I’m not going to enumerate them - genuine interest can be satisfied by genuine study of the information available. A genuine study utilising a null hypothesis and double-blind methodology? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/172 "2012-04-12T23:58:26Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > A genuine study utilising a null hypothesis and double-blind methodology? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/173 "2012-04-13T00:13:49Z")
I’m singing Sympathy for the Devil right now. And not the lead. I’m singing backup. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/174 "2012-04-13T00:28:00Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Well in that particular scenario? I don’t think the law of attraction would have much to do with any of it because nobody would be that invested in the outcome. Okay, so, by all means, please swap back in the whole both-fencers-are-heavily-invested-in-the-quest-for-a-gold-medal scenario, and… > [@](#): > > In more complex scenarios where people are invested, there are too many different things which would be part of the final result, so I couldn’t make a call either way. …well, that’s a little dispiriting, because… > [@](#): > > And no, I’m not going to enumerate them - genuine interest can be satisfied by genuine study of the information available. …given what you’re telling me here, I see no reason to do that. You’re apparently saying that, if I make a genuine study of the information available, I’d be just like you: still unable to make a call either way about the scenario. Given what’s supposed to happen when one person is working the secrets of The Secret in a vacuum, I’m genuinely interested in what’s supposed to happen when two people invested in opposite outcomes – each of 'em wishing and hoping and expecting and believing as best they can – square off against each other for the win. So why the heck would I think you’re right about satisfying my interest with the available info? You say you can’t make the call; I’m _ **likewise** _ already unable to make the call! ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/175 "2012-04-13T02:53:11Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > to preclude making it about _me_ in any respect. I shared my _knowledge_, which is all I was ever interested in sharing. What you assume or think you know is entirely about _you_, and I’m not interested in discussing _that_, either. Jeez, if this is how you argue about things you don’t feel strongly about, I’d hate to see you argue about things you _do_ care about. Actually, I take that back, we’ve seen that many times (arrogant attorneys and evil judges and vindictive exes, oh my!\*). Anyways, it’s clear you believe in this Secret nonsense, there’s no reason to be so coy about it. Your first post in this thread pretty much admits it: > [@Stoid](#): > > …if you think about it you’ll see that people really do get what they genuinely expect. And later: > [@Stoid](#): > > I’d MUCH rather be surrounded by people who believe that they are responsible for their lives than people who are constantly coming up with reasons why nothing is thier responsibility at all. People who believe in The Secret = good, responsible people. People who don’t = clueless ninnies who don’t take responsibility for anything. It’s the standard Stoid dichotomy. May as well own it. - BTW, it’s off topic, but I got a good chuckle out of that “I am incapable of feeling hate” thing back on page one. After all those law threads? Yeah right! ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/176 "2012-04-13T03:17:25Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > You’re apparently saying that, if I make a genuine study of the information available, I’d be just like you: still unable to make a call either way about the scenario. Without more information, yes. but you’d have a better idea both of hte information you’d need and of what the possibilities would be. If you really wanted to know. > [@](#): > > Given what’s supposed to happen when one person is working the secrets of The Secret in a vacuum, I’m genuinely interested in what’s supposed to happen when two people invested in opposite outcomes – each of 'em wishing and hoping and expecting and believing as best they can – square off against each other for the win. So why the heck would I think you’re right about satisfying my interest with the available info? You say you can’t make the call; I’m _ **likewise** _ already unable to make the call! No, you’dhave a better understanding of how it works an why the information you provided was insufficient and what information would be needed. One important thing to remember that it appears you don’t realize is that the law of attraction works like the law of gravity works: all the time, whether you are aware of it or not. It isn’t something that some people can use and others can’t or don’t, it’s operating no matter how aware of it people are or aren’t. (The idea behind studying the law of attraction is to learn to be able to have more conscious control over what it is one attracts.) Presumably, therefore, this involves bringing together people who are attracting complementary things so as to bring about the results that each person has “attracted”, making it unlikely that the two people in your scenario are _genuinely_ equally attracting results for themselves that they cannot both have, because they would not have “attracted” finding themselves in that position in the first place. Since it appears they want the same thing, and yet one of them will not get it, it becomes a matter of sussing out why the one who will lose might have attracted that loss, vs. the win he believes he wants. Keep in mind that, all belief systems aside, people can have powerful feelings opposing other powerful feelings, more powerful than they are necessarily aware of. People are perfectly capable of actively wanting two opposing outcomes, it’s called ambivalence. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/177 "2012-04-13T03:25:13Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > Jeez, if this is how you argue about things you don’t feel strongly about, I’d hate to see you argue about things you _do_ care about. Except I’m not arguing about it. I’m providing information. If people want to make fun of it, embrace it, piss on it, I don’t care. Just clarifying things that didn’t seem to be clear to those discussing it. > [@](#): > > Anyways, it’s clear you believe in this Secret nonsense What you think you know about me has nothing to do with me whatsoever, so enjoy. > [@](#): > > People who believe in The Secret = good, responsible people. People who don’t = clueless ninnies who don’t take responsibility for anything. Seeing as how this isn’t remotely related to what I said or what I think, it is also entirely about you, not me. So again…enjoy. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/178 "2012-04-13T03:38:05Z")
Oh, missed one - regarding people getting what they genuinely expect being proof in a belief in the law of attraction: no. People get what they expect because their behavior falls in line with their beliefs and expectations and influences their lives. Look up psych studies on optimism and pessimism and how these things influence behavior, and behavior influences results. Additionally, expectations not only influence objective results, it influences perceptions, meaning that someone who expects a certain result will read things into it that agree with their expectations. Simple example: walking through life believing that you suck and nobody loves you will, first of all, make you a fucking bummer to be around. This will lead to people thinking you suck and not liking you, which will confirm your expectation that no one will like you because you suck. Same thing applies in the positive and across a wide variety of circumstances. So of course I recognize that people do tend to get what they expect. So does science, no Secret necessary. ---
**Author:** ![florez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@florez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/florez)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/179 "2012-04-13T06:28:30Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Oh, missed one - regarding people getting what they genuinely expect being proof in a belief in the law of attraction: no. People get what they expect because their behavior falls in line with their beliefs and expectations and influences their lives. Look up psych > . Stoid, I am sure that you sincerely believe this. But it comes from a place where affluent and privileged people, have the luxury, to believe a feel good idea about attracting positive circumstances into their own lives. The Secret has had great marketing, with Oprah, and all the self help gurus getting people excited about the old idea of positive thinking, and how people get what they expect. However, If this logically applies to all people, then what is it saying about those of us faced with severe hardships and limited opportunities? For example, people born in war zones, or people living in parts of the world affected by drought. Did their thoughts also determine or influence their destiny? Did they get what they expected? And do certain people attract poverty and disease into their own lives? Can you explain more, and can you elaborate on how this fits in with your philosophy? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183/180 "2012-04-13T07:04:21Z")
> [@florez](#): > > Stoid, > I am sure that you sincerely believe this. Then you haven’t been paying very close attention. > [@](#): > > your philosophy? It’s not my philosophy. It’s a very old philosophy and/or belief system held by many people with varying details, and I’ve been sharing some of the basics about it so that when people talk about it they are at least talking about what it actually is, as opposed to what they think it is. The widely held belief is that it’s basically wish really hard and your wishes come true, and I’ve explained how that is not an accurate description of what it is. If people wanted to pit Santa Claus because he comes through the window during the summer solstice to dance the hula, I’d come into the thread to explain that Santa Claus comes down the chimney on Christmas to give gifts to children. It wouldn’t mean that I believed in Santa or did not believe in Santa, it would mean I was explaining Santa. Same here. As to your question about circumstances of birth, some people believein the idea of the spirit making choices before birth about what sort of life to be born into. If one believes this is true, then one also believes that spirit does not view corporeal existence in good/bad terms, because good and bad can only be experienced in the body at all, they are not real. Good and bad are constructs which exist only for the purpose of balance and contrast, they have no actual meaning to the spirit. Therefore choosing to come into this life severely disadvantaged by our understanding is just that, our understanding. Whereas a spirit could very well make that choice for the lessons that might be found in it, the growth that could come of it, the challenge inherent in it. Others believe that you have no control over the circumstances of your birth, but that as you gain awareness and control over your own thoughts, you gain the ability to effect change in your life. Unfortunately, whether we’re talking about the law of attraction or just the reality of being human in a very practical sense, it’s very difficult to change the way you think and believe about what is possible for you if your life experience has never been anything other than deprivation and difficulty, so that’s what you believe will continue. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-put-the-author-of-the-secret-and-everyone-who-quotes-it/618183.md?page=10)