# I really want Lane Kiffin to be FIRED!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 8, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-really-want-lane-kiffin-to-be-fired/668345 "2013-09-08T19:05:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-really-want-lane-kiffin-to-be-fired/668345/41 "2013-10-01T18:31:27Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > As for Texas, yeah, tons of money, Longhorn Network\* blah, blah, blah - but nobody gives a shit. Right now they’re at least the third-best team in the state and might be fourth. [Fourth](http://espn.go.com/college-football/rankings) behind A&M, Baylor and Tech, out of Top 25. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-really-want-lane-kiffin-to-be-fired/668345/42 "2013-10-01T20:07:41Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > [Fourth](http://espn.go.com/college-football/rankings) behind A&M, Baylor and Tech, out of Top 25. Yeah, I know, but ranking not withstanding, I’m not sure Tech would beat the Longhorns. The Aggies and the Bears would though. Hell, I’m not sure Rice couldn’t take them these days. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-really-want-lane-kiffin-to-be-fired/668345/43 "2013-10-01T20:49:39Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > [Fourth](http://espn.go.com/college-football/rankings) behind A&M, Baylor and Tech, out of Top 25. Fifth, behind TCU. Sagarin/USA Today has Baylor 3rd, TexasA&M 8th, Texas Tech 19th, TCU 30th & Texas at 44th. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-really-want-lane-kiffin-to-be-fired/668345/44 "2013-10-01T23:01:49Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > Fifth, behind TCU. Sagarin/USA Today has Baylor 3rd, TexasA&M 8th, Texas Tech 19th, TCU 30th & Texas at 44th. [This ranking](http://www.texasfootball.com/index.php/powerpoll/) has the Longhorns 6th. Houston is also ahead of Texas. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-really-want-lane-kiffin-to-be-fired/668345/45 "2013-10-02T14:16:12Z")
I heard Jack Del Rio’s name in connection with USC. A first time college coach does not seem like a good idea at USC. Good for Haden to having the balls to do this now. They got the jump on Texas, who is probably waiting until the season is over to can Brown (if they do so). ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-really-want-lane-kiffin-to-be-fired/668345/46 "2013-10-02T14:27:37Z")
Nothing against Alabama but Texas is far and away the best coaching gig in the nation, bar none. It leads the nation in just about every single metric of football programs. Coach’s salary: Nick Saban may have outearned Mack Brown but that’s because of Saban hitting every single incentive on his contract. Saban’s base contract is $225k and Mack Brown’s base salary is $770k. The final salaries for Saban and Brown are 5.6 and 5.4 million respectively. Texas has the biggest endowment of any BCS powerhouse at 17 billion. Stanford is close with 16 billion. Michigan is 3rd at 7.7 billion. USC sits at 3.5 billion. Texas topped the charts at 163 million in revenue last season, leading #2 Ohio State by 21 million, #4 Alabama by 39 million and that’s with Alabama receiving 5 million a year in “subsidies” - funds that don’t come directly out of football-related revenue streams. Looking at net worth, Texas is at 761 million, which is comparable to the net worth of 3 NFL franchises (Jags, Rams, Raiders). Michigan’s brand is worth 731 million, and Alabama’s is worth 476 million. USC sits at 197.8 million. I think Saban has a lot to gain in going to Texas. He stands to make at least 500k more a year, be in a much more secure job situation, and have an easier path to the national championship than staying put in the cannibalistic SEC. USC? Not so much. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-really-want-lane-kiffin-to-be-fired/668345/47 "2013-10-02T15:21:04Z")
Why the hell would anyone want to go to Texas? ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-really-want-lane-kiffin-to-be-fired/668345/48 "2013-10-02T15:53:16Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > Nothing against Alabama but Texas is far and away the best coaching gig in the nation, bar none. It leads the nation in just about every single metric of football programs. No, it’s really not although Texas fans want to think so. > [@](#): > > Coach’s salary: > Nick Saban may have outearned Mack Brown but that’s because of Saban hitting every single incentive on his contract. Saban’s base contract is $225k and Mack Brown’s base salary is $770k. The final salaries for Saban and Brown are 5.6 and 5.4 million respectively. So Saban’s contract is backloaded. He still got paid more (and may get more yet with all the speculation flying around). > [@](#): > > Texas has the biggest endowment of any BCS powerhouse at 17 billion. Stanford is close with 16 billion. Michigan is 3rd at 7.7 billion. USC sits at 3.5 billion. Typically, endowments can’t be used for athletics. > [@](#): > > Texas topped the charts at 163 million in revenue last season, leading #2 Ohio State by 21 million, #4 Alabama by 39 million and that’s with Alabama receiving 5 million a year in “subsidies” - funds that don’t come directly out of football-related revenue streams. > > Looking at net worth, Texas is at 761 million, which is comparable to the net worth of 3 NFL franchises (Jags, Rams, Raiders). Michigan’s brand is worth 731 million, and Alabama’s is worth 476 million. USC sits at 197.8 million. Okay. So? Saban has gotten everything from Alabama he’s ever asked for. Their facilities are top-notch. If he goes to Texas he has to start that all over again. > [@](#): > > I think Saban has a lot to gain in going to Texas. He stands to make at least 500k more a year, be in a much more secure job situation, and have an easier path to the national championship than staying put in the cannibalistic SEC. USC? Not so much. You haven’t proven the 500K a year more. More secure than Saban at Alabama? Seriously? Easier path my ass. He’s already at a school that can lose one game in the regular season and play in the Champ Game, how much easier does it get? Plus, starting next year, they just have to be Top 4, hell they can do that and not even win their Division!\* _Assume LSU beat Alabama and ends up #1. Georgia wins the East and then loses to LSU. Alabama wins out. Assume OSU, Oregon, and FSU_\* don’t lose, the Top 5 is LSU, Oregon, OSU, Alabama, and FSU. \*\*Obviously if Clemson wins out as well as Oregon and OSU, that puts 'Bama in a tough spot, but stranger things have happened. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-really-want-lane-kiffin-to-be-fired/668345/49 "2013-10-02T16:53:09Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > Nothing against Alabama but Texas is far and away the best coaching gig in the nation, bar none. It leads the nation in just about every single metric of football programs. Then why were they only able to get Mack Brown? ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-really-want-lane-kiffin-to-be-fired/668345/50 "2013-10-02T17:12:34Z")
Well, I got my wish! ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-really-want-lane-kiffin-to-be-fired/668345/51 "2013-10-02T17:13:09Z")
> [@](#): > > Typically, endowments can’t be used for athletics. No, but it’s about as accurate of a measure of a school’s donor base as you’re ever going to get. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-really-want-lane-kiffin-to-be-fired/668345/52 "2013-10-02T17:34:45Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > No, but it’s about as accurate of a measure of a school’s donor base as you’re ever going to get. No, not really. Look at the [Top 10 endowments](http://www.statisticbrain.com/college-endowment-rankings/) (all numbers in billions and as of 2011): Harvard University $31.728 Yale University $19.374 University of Texas System $17.149 Princeton University $17.110 Stanford University $16.503 Massachusetts Institute of Technology $9.713 University of Michigan $7.835 Columbia University $7.790 Northwestern University $7.183 Texas A&M University System $7.000 Note a couple of things: 1. In terms of football, Michigan is the only single-school long-time football power up there. Stanford has been good lately (and NW is much improved), but wasn’t for a long time. 2. The Texas (and Texas A&M) numbers are for the whole system. The UT system is 9 universities and 6 medical institutions, so not all that money is going to UT-Austin (i.e., the Longhorns). Academics and athletics can overlap in terms of donor enthusiasm, but there’s no direct correlation. Sorry if this is all a hijack guys. I figured the Kiffin thing was pretty much done. Although there is this now: [USC could foreclose on Kiffin’s house](http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/lane-kiffin-owes-usc-loan-on-5-million-dollar-mansion--foreclosure-fired-airport-100113). Granted, it’s only if they want to and if he can’t pay back the loan, but talk about insult to injury! ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-really-want-lane-kiffin-to-be-fired/668345/53 "2013-10-02T17:55:54Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > No, not really. No, not really what? You’re saying that a large endowment is NOT indicative of a school’s donor base? Whaaaa…? Sorry, no - it’s indicative of three things which can, in some cases, be exclusive of each other: 1) size of a school’s (or school system’s) donor base, 2) the giving capacity of a school’s (or school system’s) donor base and/or 3) age of the school/endowment. In MIT’s case, with an undergraduate enrollment of 4,500 students, it’s all about capacity. In older institutions like Harvard which have been around since the 1600s, endowments have been able to grow substantially - but it also has a considerably high capacity donor base. In large state schools like Texas and Michigan which have pumped out hundreds of thousands of alum, it’s a mixture of all three. > [@](#): > > 1. The Texas (and Texas A&M) numbers are for the whole system. The UT system is 9 universities and 6 medical institutions, so not all that money is going to UT-Austin (i.e., the Longhorns). UT-Austin enrolls over 50,000 students every year. Their donor base, and thus their football booster base, is enormous. It’s likely the largest booster base in the country. Alabama’s enrollment is 30,000 - not bad. But UT’s media exposure is MUCH larger. > [@](#): > > Academics and athletics can overlap in terms of donor enthusiasm, but there’s no direct correlation. There’s always correlation. For example, I went to Notre Dame, I have family that has worked in administration, and I have friends in admin as well. When the Irish do well on the field, their endowment donations, applications for admissions, and any other metric you can think of, increase - across the board. The opposite holds true as well. Maybe Notre Dame’s different in that regard, but I doubt it. I guarantee that Texas A&M saw a spike in applications last year, and will do so again this year. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-really-want-lane-kiffin-to-be-fired/668345/54 "2013-10-02T18:43:23Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > No, not really what? You’re saying that a large endowment is NOT indicative of a school’s donor base? Whaaaa…? Sorry, no - it’s indicative of three things which can, in some cases, be exclusive of each other: 1) size of a school’s (or school system’s) donor base, 2) the giving capacity of a school’s (or school system’s) donor base and/or 3) age of the school/endowment. In MIT’s case, with an undergraduate enrollment of 4,500 students, it’s all about capacity. In older institutions like Harvard which have been around since the 1600s, endowments have been able to grow substantially - but it also has a considerably high capacity donor base. In large state schools like Texas and Michigan which have pumped out hundreds of thousands of alum, it’s a mixture of all three. I agree with all of this. What I’m saying (and I think the list I linked proves it) is that the size of the endowment is NOT correlated with athletic success in college football. > [@](#): > > UT-Austin enrolls over 50,000 students every year. Their donor base, and thus their football booster base, is enormous. It’s likely the largest booster base in the country. Alabama’s enrollment is 30,000 - not bad. But UT’s media exposure is MUCH larger. Liberty University 64,096 Ohio State University-Main Campus 52,568 University of Florida 51,725 Arizona State University 51,481 University of Minnesota-Twin Cities 50,883 The University of Texas at Austin 50,170 University of Central Florida 48,398 Texas A & M University 46,542 City College of San Francisco 46,411 Michigan State University 46,045 University of South Florida 44,870 And yet, Alabama has 13 National Championships while no other school on this list tops 7 (since 1869 and counting all “national champions” - list is [here](http://www.ncaa.com/history/football/fbs)) I can’t find any statistics on Booster Club sizes, my google-fu is letting me down. > [@](#): > > There’s always correlation. For example, I went to Notre Dame, I have family that has worked in administration, and I have friends in admin as well. When the Irish do well on the field, their endowment donations, applications for admissions, and any other metric you can think of, increase - across the board. The opposite holds true as well. Maybe Notre Dame’s different in that regard, but I doubt it. I guarantee that Texas A&M saw a spike in applications last year, and will do so again this year. I completely agree with this, but I would argue that it’s MUCH more one way than the other. If athletics does well, the rest get a boost. Does a Nobel Prize convince a 4-star OLB to sign? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-really-want-lane-kiffin-to-be-fired/668345/55 "2013-10-02T19:08:51Z")
Apologies to everyone else in the thread - but this is just an entertaining hijack. > [@Zakalwe](#): > > I agree with all of this. What I’m saying (and I think the list I linked proves it) is that the size of the endowment is NOT correlated with athletic success in college football. Well, I didn’t claim that endowment size is correlated to athletic success - just that endowment correlates to a donor base which can be tapped into for athletic support. > [@](#): > > Liberty University 64,096 > Ohio State University-Main Campus 52,568 > University of Florida 51,725 > Arizona State University 51,481 > University of Minnesota-Twin Cities 50,883 > The University of Texas at Austin 50,170 > University of Central Florida 48,398 > Texas A & M University 46,542 > City College of San Francisco 46,411 > Michigan State University 46,045 > University of South Florida 44,870 Weird list - Liberty is under 16,000 residential. Either way, I was talking about living alumni. You combine very large alumni numbers with an historically prominent football team, and you have a good recipe for being able to scrape up enough scratch for a top quality coach. Now, that begs the question of why in the world UT has saddled themselves with Mack Brown. The answer to that may just make this entire conversation pointless, especially if it’s “Texas couldn’t get anyone better”. Either way, I don’t have much doubt that Texas would be able to find $500,000 in their couch cushions if they looked. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-really-want-lane-kiffin-to-be-fired/668345/56 "2013-10-02T19:18:56Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Now, that begs the question of why in the world UT has saddled themselves with Mack Brown. The answer to that may just make this entire conversation pointless, especially if it’s “Texas couldn’t get anyone better”. Either way, I don’t have much doubt that Texas would be able to find $500,000 in their couch cushions if they looked. If your arguments about their advantages are correct, it sure seems like Texas has underachieved as an athletic powerhouse: 4 national football titles, and 0 men’s basketball titles. Great baseball team, though, granted. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-really-want-lane-kiffin-to-be-fired/668345/57 "2013-10-02T19:31:33Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > If your arguments about their advantages are correct, it sure seems like Texas has underachieved as an athletic powerhouse: 4 national football titles, and 0 men’s basketball titles. Yeah, no kidding. But Ohio State has 4, and being head coach there is a top spot in football. Florida has 3. Michigan has 3 since the AP era. And if you really want to count titles, that works against you in some places. No matter how many titles Saban wins at Alabama, he’ll ALWAYS be second fiddle to Bear Bryant. I think if Saban jumped ship to Texas and won them a couple titles, he’d be elevated to minor diety status in the Lone Star State. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-really-want-lane-kiffin-to-be-fired/668345/58 "2013-10-02T19:39:36Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Weird list - Liberty is under 16,000 residential. Either way, I was talking about living alumni. You combine very large alumni numbers with an historically prominent football team, and you have a good recipe for being able to scrape up enough scratch for a top quality coach. Okay, well I didn’t source the list (and I should have), I think those counts include on-line students. Here’s the [US News list](http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/the-short-list-college/articles/2012/11/06/10-universities-with-most-undergrad-students) from 2012 (2011 numbers): DeVry University (IL) 70,158 Arizona State University 58,404 University of Central Florida 49,900 Ohio State University—Columbus 42,916 Texas A&M University—College Station 39,867 Pennsylvania State University—University Park University of Texas—Austin 38,437 Michigan State University 36,675 Florida International University 35,875 University of Minnesota—Twin Cities 34,812 These are number of undergraduate students as reported by the Universities themselves. Suddenly Liberty is nowhere to be found… But now we have a different issue. Texas A&M is bigger than UT! ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-really-want-lane-kiffin-to-be-fired/668345/59 "2013-10-02T19:41:06Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Yeah, no kidding. But Ohio State has 4, and being head coach there is a top spot in football. Florida has 3. Michigan has 3 since the AP era. And if you really want to count titles, that works against you in some places. No matter how many titles Saban wins at Alabama, he’ll ALWAYS be second fiddle to Bear Bryant. I think if Saban jumped ship to Texas and won them a couple titles, he’d be elevated to minor diety status in the Lone Star State. Actually based on the data I compiled from the NCAA, OSU can lay claim to 7 national titles. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-really-want-lane-kiffin-to-be-fired/668345/60 "2013-10-02T19:58:40Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Actually based on the data I compiled from the NCAA, OSU can lay claim to 7 national titles. And the new rules for which titles you can claim are garbage. Woody Hayes himself didn’t claim the titles in '57, '61, or '70, and their athletic department didn’t until the NCAA opened it up. Any Big Ten school trying to claim a title in a year they didn’t even get to the Rose Bowl should be ashamed of themselves. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-really-want-lane-kiffin-to-be-fired/668345.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-really-want-lane-kiffin-to-be-fired/668345.md?page=4)