# I refused to sign the banks nosey form. Now what? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 11, 2018, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-refused-to-sign-the-banks-nosey-form-now-what/817709 "2018-07-11T11:42:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-refused-to-sign-the-banks-nosey-form-now-what/817709/61 "2018-07-13T20:54:48Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > And why should a hypothetical antique seller have to answer these questions? If the police suspect you of illegal structuring, isn’t the onus on them to prove your guilt, rather than the onus being on you to prove your innocence? (Yes, I realize that it can be pragmatic to proactively cooperate to avoid your money and possibly your person being seized on bogus charges. But like the OP, I find the very idea of having to do this to be abhorrent.) Because if you have structured your transactions , then indeed they have proven your guilt. But of course in a Court of Law, the burden is still on the Prosecution. Ignorance is actually a pretty good excuse here. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-refused-to-sign-the-banks-nosey-form-now-what/817709/62 "2018-07-13T20:57:44Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > With respect, I’m not. All I was saying was that if the authorities suspect you of a crime, then you should not be made to feel that you have to entertain their suspicions by responding to their questions. Let them build their case without your involvement; if you really are innocent then (at least in an ideal world) they won’t get as far as asset seizure and/or prosecution. I have no idea of what you are getting at. You do not have to respond to the banks questions other than to ID yourself. The purpose question will likely reduce suspicion. But you can say “I’d prefer not to answer”. But refusing to fill out the from and getting angry will only make you appear more suspicious. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-refused-to-sign-the-banks-nosey-form-now-what/817709/63 "2018-07-13T21:19:53Z")
So we have arrived at a point where a desire for privacy makes one appear suspicious. Wonderful. There are a lot of times when I am glad to be old. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-refused-to-sign-the-banks-nosey-form-now-what/817709/64 "2018-07-13T21:32:42Z")
> [@kayT](#): > > So we have arrived at a point where a desire for privacy makes one appear suspicious. Wonderful. There are a lot of times when I am glad to be old. No, a angry refusal to fill out a required form makes you suspicious. Saying “I prefer that remain private” on optional questions does not. When you are pulled over by the Police and they issue you a ticket, would it be Ok to scrawl “refused” on the ticket and refuse to sign? ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-refused-to-sign-the-banks-nosey-form-now-what/817709/65 "2018-07-13T21:51:03Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > That $47K you withdrew a while back? You may not have had to do anything about it but I guarantee someone at the bank had to review the transaction and file a report on it Yeah, but I didn’t have to fill out a form or have a teller insist I tell her what I’m doing with my money like she’s my Mother. (I think that’s what pissed me off the most. Had she just handed me the form and said their security department asked for this it wouldn’t of rubbed me the wrong way so much. It was her insistant tone that got to me!) I’ll buy all the penny whistles and Moon Pies I want with my allowance, Thank you very little! ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-refused-to-sign-the-banks-nosey-form-now-what/817709/66 "2018-07-13T22:00:33Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Banks are also supposed to have policies in place to oversee suspicious activity involving the accounts of [elderly patrons](https://www.vedderprice.com/bank-responsibility-for-elder-financial-exploitation). > > It must get interesting if you’re an old guy that wants to withdraw 5K for whatever reason. A couple years ago, I was at the post office, and the clerk got the postmaster when an elderly man came in to buy some money orders, and started pulling thick bundles of $100 bills out of his overalls. I didn’t stick around to see what eventually happened. More recently, I was at a rummage sale that is dubbed “This City’s Biggest Rummage Sale” (it’s for the symphony and lasts several days) and overheard some of the volunteers chatting. One of them said that when she was in charge of the deposits a few years earlier, she took one day’s receipts to the bank, and had to fill out some paperwork and answer a barrage of questions because she brought in more than $10,000 in cash. Most likely, this was the first day’s sales (they charge admission, and people come from all over to get the goodies), and it was a shock to her to have to do this because she had never heard of such a thing. She was mostly afraid of getting robbed; nothing like this had ever occurred to her. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-refused-to-sign-the-banks-nosey-form-now-what/817709/67 "2018-07-13T23:44:54Z")
> [@kayT](#): > > So we have arrived at a point where a desire for privacy makes one appear suspicious. Wonderful. There are a lot of times when I am glad to be old. > [@DrDeth](#): > > No, a angry refusal to fill out a required form makes you suspicious. > > Saying “I prefer that remain private” on optional questions does not. > > When you are pulled over by the Police and they issue you a ticket, would it be Ok to scrawl “refused” on the ticket and refuse to sign? No, I don’t screw around with cops if I’m getting a ticket. Not exactly the same thing as getting my own money out of my own account. So I can get privacy if I ask for it politely enough, I see. Ok then. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-refused-to-sign-the-banks-nosey-form-now-what/817709/68 "2018-07-13T23:46:09Z")
> [@kayT](#): > > No, I don’t screw around with cops if I’m getting a ticket. Not exactly the same thing as getting my own money out of my own account. > > So I can get privacy if I ask for it politely enough, I see. Ok then. Well, you do have to fill out and sign the form. But the reason is optional. Put something like “prefer not to state”. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2018, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-refused-to-sign-the-banks-nosey-form-now-what/817709/69 "2018-07-14T00:56:12Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > I’d support a constitutional privacy amendment stating that the people have a right to deal in cash, and that possession of cash, in any amount, is not by itself probable cause of criminal activity. … except for the pesky fact that this isn’t relevant. OK, sure, granted, it isn’t probable cause. Are you seriously suggesting that therefore money laundering should be eagerly promoted? ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2018, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-refused-to-sign-the-banks-nosey-form-now-what/817709/70 "2018-07-14T00:57:19Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, you do have to fill out and sign the form. But the reason is optional. Put something like “prefer not to state”. That’s obviously not a reason. Why should it be acceptable? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2018, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-refused-to-sign-the-banks-nosey-form-now-what/817709/71 "2018-07-14T01:16:02Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > That’s obviously not a reason. Why should it be acceptable? Reason is optional. The feds do not require a reason. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2018, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-refused-to-sign-the-banks-nosey-form-now-what/817709/72 "2018-07-14T01:17:02Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > When you are pulled over by the Police and they issue you a ticket, would it be Ok to scrawl “refused” on the ticket and refuse to sign? Our UTC’s here don’t require signatures so that’s a moot point here. But in cases like in the booking room if a subject refuses to sign when their property is inventoried they can refuse. We just write “RTS” on the space. Can’t legally make them sign anything. They still get their stuff back when released. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2018, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-refused-to-sign-the-banks-nosey-form-now-what/817709/73 "2018-07-14T01:50:57Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Our UTC’s here don’t require signatures so that’s a moot point here. But in cases like in the booking room if a subject refuses to sign when their property is inventoried they can refuse. We just write “RTS” on the space. Can’t legally make them sign anything. They still get their stuff back when released. In CA, signing the ticket is a promise to appear, dont sign, you go to jail. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2018, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-refused-to-sign-the-banks-nosey-form-now-what/817709/74 "2018-07-14T04:49:50Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > In CA, signing the ticket is a promise to appear, dont sign, you go to jail. by “go to jail” do you mean you’re booked and released or you have to sit on your ass until you see a judge, or what? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2018, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-refused-to-sign-the-banks-nosey-form-now-what/817709/75 "2018-07-14T05:01:36Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > by “go to jail” do you mean you’re booked and released or you have to sit on your ass until you see a judge, or what? Booked and released for infractions. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2018, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-refused-to-sign-the-banks-nosey-form-now-what/817709/76 "2018-07-14T05:36:21Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Booked and released for infractions. Hmm. I kinda sorta knew this but it’s weird. Violator is identified by DL, who cares if he signs or not, right? During my first career I was a Sheriffs Deputy. Served a lot of civil process as you probably are quite aware of. We had little cards that we asked recipients to sign when served. They’d get included with the affidavit we’d fill out after a serve. Even people in the legal profession that got served daily would never sign them. Couldn’t do anything about it. Just shows how every state has different rules/laws. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2018, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-refused-to-sign-the-banks-nosey-form-now-what/817709/77 "2018-07-14T07:17:47Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > And in this case, it wasn’t even the police asking the questions, making this objection even more off-base. Not that it was off-base to begin with, but no, it doesn’t matter a whit whether it’s a prosecutor or a police investigator or a bank who’s asking nosey questions to investigate the possibility of illegal transactions. It shouldn’t fall on you to help them. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2018, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-refused-to-sign-the-banks-nosey-form-now-what/817709/78 "2018-07-14T07:24:00Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You do not have to respond to the banks questions other than to ID yourself. > > The purpose question will likely reduce suspicion. I said as much in my first post. Yes, you don’t need to cooperate, but it’s unfortunate when you are put into a position where you feel you must in order to allay suspicions that it’s not your job to prove. > [@](#): > > But refusing to fill out the from and getting angry will only make you appear more suspicious. No one said anything about getting angry. ---
**Author:** ![sbunny8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@sbunny8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sbunny8)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2018, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-refused-to-sign-the-banks-nosey-form-now-what/817709/79 "2018-07-14T12:29:27Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > No one said anything about getting angry. Really? Hmm, here are some snippets from the OP (with names of the smilies used): > [@pkbites](#): > > .mad. FO! > .mad.eek.mad. > It was all I could do to remain a gentleman and not write \*\*FUCK YOU \*\*in the biggest letters I could on that form. > WTF > That encounter sure enhanced my belligerence for the day. Psychonaut, maybe _ **you** _ never said anything about getting angry, but that doesn’t mean that _ **no one** _ said anything about getting angry. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2018, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-refused-to-sign-the-banks-nosey-form-now-what/817709/80 "2018-07-14T13:53:56Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > I’d support a constitutional privacy amendment stating that the people have a right to deal in cash, and that possession of cash, in any amount, is not by itself probable cause of criminal activity. There are economists who say that paper money (something like 80 percent of all $100 bills, which are almost as numerous as $1 bills—[http://www.visualcapitalist.com/many-u-s-dollar-bills-circulation/](http://www.visualcapitalist.com/many-u-s-dollar-bills-circulation/)) primarily facilitates crimes like robbery, illegal drug trafficking, human trafficking, bribery, money laundering, and tax evasion. > **[Why Are We Still Using Cash? - Freakonomics](https://freakonomics.com/podcast/why-are-we-still-using-cash/)** > > Why Are We Still Using Cash? - Freakonomics [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-refused-to-sign-the-banks-nosey-form-now-what/817709.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-refused-to-sign-the-banks-nosey-form-now-what/817709.md?page=5)