# I remember when "kilt him a bar, when he was only 3" was something to be admired **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 25, 2005, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827 "2005-10-25T16:07:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/41 "2005-10-25T19:03:24Z")
My only question is how I can get a copy of this hunting test. I find it hard to believe that if an 8 year can get a 98 on it, that this is a very thorough test. What is the minimum passing grade? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/42 "2005-10-25T19:04:54Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Well, presumably dad was right there with a back up rifle in case it got dangerous. And, if things went totally, astronomically wrong, he could always run slower than his daughter. 😃 Seriously, though. Hunting is about as safe of a sport as you can get. It’s much safer than sports like soccer or football. The most serious risk of injury with hunting is falling out of a treestand. Of course, this generally only happens to dolts who don’t use a safety harness. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/43 "2005-10-25T19:10:43Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > it just makes me mad that a good segment of the population feels that they have the right to attack a father and daughter who did something together, something all too fathers do nowadays, to criticize a special bonding moment between parent and child, just because hunting is not an activity that they personally enjoy. But they didn’t. They criticized it because hunting is an activity that they personally find immoral. I don’t happen to agree with them, and if the excess bear population in Maryland needs thinning then I don’t have a problem with properly supervised children going out bear hunting in a legal manner. But if other people are morally opposed to hunting, then they have a right to express their concern about it. That’s different from just criticizing other people’s tastes because they’re different from your own. If an eight-year-old girl is mature enough to kill a bear, she’s mature enough to deal with the knowledge that a lot of people consider hunting to be morally wrong. There are plenty of people who consider, say, publicly protesting against an ongoing war to be morally wrong and counterproductive for the success and safety of our troops. If a father took his eight-year-old daughter to her first antiwar protest, would it make you equally mad that some people would “criticize that special bonding moment” by publicly disapproving of what they did? ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/44 "2005-10-25T19:24:42Z")
I’m not a hunter, but half my cousins were. My in-laws are. Many of my friends growing up in Maine were. Going hunting together was always considered a very bonding thing to do (very bonding?). I think it can only be compared to a kid’s dad bringing him to his first baseball game, or whatever it is girls do with their moms. . .but, even more powerful I think. This girl getting the FIRST bear of the season while out with her dad is going to be something the two of them cherish for the rest of their lives. _Cherish_. Guaranteed. That’s worth more than a semester of school. My Dad and sister once _saw_ a bear while out playing golf in Maine when she was like 10. They still laugh about it today. I thought this was a very nice, touching story. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/45 "2005-10-25T19:28:24Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > But if other people are morally opposed to hunting, then they have a right to express their concern about it. That’s different from just criticizing other people’s tastes because they’re different from your own. I’m not trying to get all libertarian here or anything, but whats the difference between some folks being publically vocal (and hurtfully so) because they are morally opposed to hunting, and some folks doing the same kinds of things against gays? Or against folks who like porn? Or against cross dressers? Or against any group that does something you personally don’t enjoy/approve of? Myself, I’m a live and let live kind of guy. If folks like to hunt…let em. If they like porn, more power to em. If they have a different sexual orientation than I do, fine by me. If they like to cross dress, knock themselves out. If a group is doing something thats legal and you don’t like it (i.e. you are ‘morally opposed’) then take it up with the legislature, not with the individuals practicing it…they are within their rights. Keep your ‘morals’ to yourselves. 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![elfbabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b782af/32.png) [@elfbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfbabe)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/46 "2005-10-25T19:36:11Z")
I’ve never hunted. I never will, barring some kind of collapse of society situation. I eat a predominantly vegetarian diet. Still, my first reaction to this was something like “Oh MAN! She got a BEAR! Awesome!” Really… it’s an extremely limited hunt to keep the population under control, and according to the article, “all hunters must pass a nine-hour safety class, which includes a live-fire drill to prove they can safely carry, load and shoot”. I fail to see the problem, here. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/47 "2005-10-25T19:39:24Z")
> [@Steve MB](#): > > That’s an excellent point. It has nothing to do with the morality of hunting – he also had no business pulling her out of school so she could play hop-scotch all day, glue her eyeballs to the Cartoon Network, or otherwise amuse herself instead of getting edumacated. You clearly don’t know the state of schools these days. I think that disconnection from nature and the primal is one of the biggest problems in our society these days. Schools mostly waste our time, they are predicated on an idea of lowest common denominator and rely on standards that are unrealistic. I will use the very existance of textbooks as my evidence. Textbooks have the most unnuanced descriptions of history of any book out there. They give you 3 pages on a major subject and that’s the source material most people have, and they cost $ 50 a pop. If we axed textbooks and provided every kid with an internet terminal, they’d have the wealth of the internet at their disposal all day, but that’s not happening. I look at the sheer ignorance of the political process espoused on this board, a board populated by a better educated populace than the average, and it just shows me how useless the education system from Kindergarten through College is. It’s mostly senseless bureaucracy wasting people’s time. Our teachers are often the dregs of society who failed at life outside of the school system, so they get a job as a teacher for way below market wages. The teachers who are there because it’s actually their calling are oftentimes fighting an uphill battle against a system that doesn’t really care. I’d say that ANY reason a father takes his kid out of school to spend time with them, is time well spent, a father is a far better teacher than a state funded indoctrination center. Erek ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/48 "2005-10-25T19:44:08Z")
> [@xt](#): > > I’m not trying to get all libertarian here or anything, but whats the difference between some folks being publically vocal (and hurtfully so) because they are morally opposed to hunting, and some folks doing the same kinds of things against gays? Or against folks who like porn? Or against cross dressers? Or against antiwar protesters? Not that much, IMO. I suppose one could make a case for sexual preferences and orientations being different because they’re private and personal, as opposed to public activities like participating in a state-sponsored bear hunt or attending an antiwar rally. Therefore, the argument would go, the critics should butt out of the private and personal sex issues because it’s none of their business and they should respect others’ privacy. However, I find that distinction somewhat weak. I think anybody has the right to exercise their constitutional freedom of speech to legally express their disapproval of any activity that they consider morally wrong. And I have the right to disagree with and/or ignore them. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/49 "2005-10-25T19:44:51Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > she went out with her father to the far reaches of the family farm, and in the pre-dawn twilight, she shot her bear, reloaded, and shot it again, bringing it down for good. I think hunting for fun is inhumane. I think people who deplore blood sports as savage relics of the past are spot on. Hunting for necessity is a whole other matter. If the girl lives in an area where she might reasonably encounter bears on her own farm, then she really -needs- to be able to do this. Bears are mostly harmless but not by any means reliably so. It sounds like the girl deserves credit for doing it right. Knowing how to reload under pressure and making sure the animal is completely dead are the hallmarks of a good hunter. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/50 "2005-10-25T19:50:24Z")
> [@Nithotep](#): > > I think hunting for fun is inhumane. I find hunting very enjoyable. Am I inhumane, then? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/51 "2005-10-25T19:53:00Z")
> [@Nithotep](#): > > I think hunting for fun is inhumane. I think people who deplore blood sports as savage relics of the past are spot on. > > Hunting for necessity is a whole other matter. If the girl lives in an area where she might reasonably encounter bears on her own farm, then she really -needs- to be able to do this. > > Bears are mostly harmless but not by any means reliably so. > > It sounds like the girl deserves credit for doing it right. Knowing how to reload under pressure and making sure the animal is completely dead are the hallmarks of a good hunter. Well, I think that if you are huntnig you should be eating the meat you kill. You can do it for sport, that’s fine. I don’t think there is something inherently unethical about killing your food yourself that doesn’t apply to keeping a cow in a cramped pasture it’s whole life and then ending it’s life with a hyrdaulic bolt. Actually killing your own food is more ethical than buying it in a grocery store, at least the animal lived a free life and wasn’t caused to unecessarily suffer as a commodity. It also has a sense of personal responsibility. At least you KNOW you killed your food, and don’t get to hide behind a message board talking shit. Erek ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/52 "2005-10-25T19:55:32Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Tell me, have you ever looked at that buck before you shoot it? Do you ever marvel at the beauty of him and the wonder at his life–and feel lucky as hell that you get to observe him in his natural state and feel a part of his world? Yep, I sure have. Right before I nailed him with a .30-06. We ate off that buck all winter, and had meat to share with friends. Venison stew, venison jerky…that’s good eatin’! Godd for the girl and her father. Bonding moments like that are special. ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/53 "2005-10-25T19:56:34Z")
Poor bear. ☚ ---
**Author:** ![Exgineer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Exgineer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exgineer)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/54 "2005-10-25T20:07:10Z")
> [@Nithotep](#): > > I think hunting for fun is inhumane. I think people who deplore blood sports as savage relics of the past are spot on. We’ve had overpopulation problems with deer, bear, and turkey around here for years now. Tell me, what’s more humane: to cull the herd to sustainable levels through sport hunting, or to allow overpopulation to continue, resulting in stunted growth, disease and starvation? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/55 "2005-10-25T20:22:14Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Or against antiwar protesters? Yes, exactly…wish I thought of that one to add to my list. Thanks. 🙂 > [@Kimstu](#): > > However, I find that distinction somewhat weak. I think anybody has the right to exercise their constitutional freedom of speech to legally express their disapproval of any activity that they consider morally wrong. And I have the right to disagree with and/or ignore them. Certainly. I suppose the point I was raising is that if one decides to be ‘morally opposed’ to some action by a group in a public and vocal way (i.e. attacking an 8 year old girl for shooting a bear in a legal fashion), don’t be surprised when some other group does the same thing back at ya for something you enjoy because THEY are ‘morally opposed’. Not that I’m pointing at you (in fact, I’m certainly NOT pointing at you here as I don’t think this of you), but the hypocrisy of some folks is astounding sometimes. They will get all indignant when their pet ‘thing’ gets attacked because some yahoo out there is ‘morally opposed’ (vocally and in public), but then turn around and essentially do the same exact thing to another group (again vocally, and in public). Can’t we all jus’ get along…? 😉 -XT ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/56 "2005-10-25T20:25:26Z")
Though I do kind of find it funny that 500 bears is considered overpopulation. What about the 5,296,486 people in Maryland? We should open hunting season on them once in a while. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/57 "2005-10-25T20:27:42Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Though I do kind of find it funny that 500 bears is considered overpopulation. What about the 5,296,486 people in Maryland? We should open hunting season on them once in a while. Recent scientific studies have strongly suggested the following statement is true: Bears =/= People ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/58 "2005-10-25T20:29:37Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > I’m sure bear hunting in Maryland is safer than bear hunting in Alaska. But have any hunters been mauled by bears they failed to bring down? Any bears get the drop on the hunter when he was looking the wrong way? I don’t think I’d take my kid out hunting bears. He’d be little more than a snack if the bear got the upper hand. I wouldn’t take an eight year old hunting, period. Marc ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/59 "2005-10-25T20:30:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Recent scientific studies have strongly suggested the following statement is true: > > Bears =/= People Cite??? 😉 -XT ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/60 "2005-10-25T20:32:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Recent scientific studies have strongly suggested the following statement is true: > > Bears =/= People Bears != Deer, but you can hunt deer. Hmmm… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827.md?page=4)