# I remember when "kilt him a bar, when he was only 3" was something to be admired **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 25, 2005, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827 "2005-10-25T16:07:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/61 "2005-10-25T20:32:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Recent scientific studies have strongly suggested the following statement is true: > > Bears =/= People Thank you for showing me your rudimentary knowledge of zoology. No one is saying they equal people, I am just suggesting that perhaps it is teh people who are overpopulating Maryland, and not the bears. The exchange rate seems to be about 10,000 to 1 yet people still seem to find humans more valuable. I think we should have a national murder day. You get to kill one person legally in an effort to cull the herd. Erek ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/62 "2005-10-25T20:41:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Recent scientific studies have strongly suggested the following statement is true: > > Bears =/= People I guess you haven’t been to JayJay’s in Saint Louis or seen any Tom of Finland artwork… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/63 "2005-10-25T20:42:02Z")
I was touched by the fact that a father would share that sort of experience with a girl. This would have been totally unheard of in my time. I’m 54. If we ever want to see women to have the same opportunity and experience in areas where men dominate, historically, no other human endeavour can match hunting as a male preserve. Ergo, the rifle is a great equalizer ? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/64 "2005-10-25T20:46:12Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > May a parent pull his child from school to visit the Mary Casset exhibit at the local art gallery? > > How about to meet the governor of the state? > > How about to participate in an Olympics gymnastic tryout? > > How about for a swim-with-the-dolphins program? > > Are any of those acceptable reasons? I dunno – which of them are still going to be there next weekend? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/65 "2005-10-25T20:47:54Z")
If bear huntin’ seasons get more popular, rural folks will definitely have to invest in bright orange vests for their black Labradors. “And there’s 10 stuffed heads In my trophy room right now… Two game wardens, Seven hunters, And a pure-bred Guernsey cow.” -Tom Lehrer ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/66 "2005-10-25T20:55:46Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > If they like to cross dress, knock themselves out. If a group is doing something thats legal and you don’t like it (i.e. you are ‘morally opposed’) then take it up with the legislature, not with the individuals practicing it…they are within their rights. Keep your ‘morals’ to yourselves. Morally, the difference between someone who will directly confront people whose conduct he dislikes\* and someone who will “take it up with the legislature” consists solely of the fact that the former has the courage of his convictions and the latter is spinelessly hiding behind intermediaries. I still think taking someone out of school for a day to go hunting is inappropriate, but I don’t consider it an appropriate subject to “take up with the legislature”. \*I gather from your phrasing that you are referring to cases where someone has an aesthetic objection to someone else’s behavior, but cannot show that it is actually dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/67 "2005-10-25T21:00:36Z")
**Bricker** –that sounds a great organization. I like deer sausage–and wish I could get some around here. I find hunting for the bloodlust of it distasteful and de-humanizing. I can understand the skill and dedication needed to be a good hunter. I dislike the attitude of “let’s go kill us some bambi” etc. Good hunters respect nature and recognize her limitations and her dangers, IMO. Thus endeth the lecture (sorry…) ---
**Author:** ![5que](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/3bc359/32.png) [@5que](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5que)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/68 "2005-10-25T21:01:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Bears =/= People > [@Maeglin](#): > > Bears != Deer, but you can hunt deer. “Soylent Green is Deer!” ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/69 "2005-10-25T21:03:52Z")
**Steve MB** I totally agree with you about direct confrontation. I have always felt like protests were stupid and useless. Then reading an article about a Wal Mart employee that turned in a high school student for doing an anti-bush poster for his Civics assignment on the Bill of Rights in Kitty Hawk NC, I realized, that protestors should be protesting guys like this. They shouldn’t be protesting in front of the White House and UN. They should be going to Mal Warts where tools like this work and protesting them directly. Erek ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/70 "2005-10-25T21:04:56Z")
> [@MGibson](#): > > I wouldn’t take an eight year old hunting, period. > > Marc My hippyometer just broke. Erek ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/71 "2005-10-25T21:35:55Z")
My father was a hunter, and I have eaten many a Canadian goose, pheasant and quail, but to be honest it seems a bit … umm…“forced” to go to the time and trouble to get an _8 year old_ licensed, armed and set up to plunk a bear at dawn. I’m all for father-daughter bonding, but I think this is something that it would have been better to pursue when she was a teenager. Maybe it’s just my experience with my occasionally irresponsible and careless kids, but arming an 8 year old with a powerful rifle doesn’t seem to (IMO) be an especially prudent thing to do, and speaks more to a super enthusiastic parent’s pushing, than to a child’s earnest desire. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/72 "2005-10-25T21:38:52Z")
> [@astro](#): > > My father was a hunter, and I have eaten many a Canadian goose, pheasant and quail, but to be honest it seems a bit … umm…“forced” to go to the time and trouble to get an _8 year old_ licensed, armed and set up to plunk a bear at dawn. > > I’m all for father-daughter bonding, but I think this is something that it would have been better to pursue when she was a teenager. Maybe it’s just my experience with my occasionally irresponsible and careless kids, but arming an 8 year old with a powerful rifle doesn’t seem to (IMO) be an especially prudent thing to do, and speaks more to a super enthusiastic parent’s pushing, than to a child’s earnest desire. Pure speculation on your part. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/73 "2005-10-25T21:39:23Z")
> [@astro](#): > > My father was a hunter, and I have eaten many a Canadian goose, pheasant and quail, but to be honest it seems a bit … umm…“forced” to go to the time and trouble to get an _8 year old_ licensed, armed and set up to plunk a bear at dawn. > > I’m all for father-daughter bonding, but I think this is something that it would have been better to pursue when she was a teenager. Maybe it’s just my experience with my occasionally irresponsible and careless kids, but arming an 8 year old with a powerful rifle doesn’t seem to (IMO) be an especially prudent thing to do, and speaks more to a super enthusiastic parent’s pushing, than to a child’s earnest desire. So you don’t think that the fact that she bagged herself a bear is evidence that she might not be the kind of kid you are talking about, and perhaps a one size fits all attitude might be inappropriate? Erek ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/74 "2005-10-25T21:39:42Z")
> [@](#): > > I find hunting very enjoyable. Am I inhumane, then? Yup. Finding pleasure in any kind of killing is ridiculous. We omnivores eat meat to survive but it’s a necessary evil. Those hunters who pose for pictures act like they accomplished something. They were just there when a particular outstanding specimen happened along. They didn’t create it. They didn’t build it. They shot it. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/75 "2005-10-25T21:40:44Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > Yup. Finding pleasure in any kind of killing is ridiculous. We omnivores eat meat to survive but it’s a necessary evil. Those hunters who pose for pictures act like they accomplished something. They were just there when a particular outstanding specimen happened along. They didn’t create it. They didn’t build it. They shot it. If you don’t feel guilty for living you’re cold and unfeeling!!! ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/76 "2005-10-25T21:58:49Z")
> [@Exgineer](#): > > We’ve had overpopulation problems with deer, bear, and turkey around here for years now. > > Tell me, what’s more humane: to cull the herd to sustainable levels through sport hunting, or to allow overpopulation to continue, resulting in stunted growth, disease and starvation? As I said in my initial post, I think hunting from necessity is different than hunting for fun. I would include “hunting as a response against overpopulation” as a necessity. The reality of human population growth is that we have largely replaced the natural predators at the top of the food chain. It is necessary for us to exercise that postition. Personally, I’d _rather_ see a reintroduction of the large predators but I know that’s not at all realistic. For example, I’d like to see wolves reintroduced to the Cuyahoga Valley national park in order to help control the deer population there. And while I’m at it, I’d like a pony. And a boat. And some ice cream. But I digress. Crafter\_Man and mswas, what I said was, “I think hunting for fun is inhumane.” Since you asked directly, allow me to elaborate In my opinion, if the only reason one hunts is because one finds killing enjoyable, than yes, I would say that one is inhumane. If one is hunting for necessity, including food, wildlife control or protection, that, in my opinion is different and reasonable. Persumably even the necessity hunters find it enjoyable on some level or they would have a different hobby. But there is a difference between the good hunters and the people who are just out to blow shit up. I would indeed consider the later inhumane. Also, keep in mind that I praised that young girl for learning that it was important to kill the animal cleanly. I would say that too is a difference between humane and inhumane hunters - humane hunters see to it that the animal suffers as little as possible. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/77 "2005-10-25T21:59:32Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > So you don’t think that the fact that she bagged herself a bear is evidence that she might not be the kind of kid you are talking about, and perhaps a one size fits all attitude might be inappropriate? > > Erek She could be the world’s best young hunter, my objection isn’t so much the bear getting bagged, hunting bears is fully and possibly necessary in some situations. Two things kinda-sorta bother me in this scenario and the objections are more aesthetic and safety related than anything to do with the necessity of hunting bears. Firstly, the notion of getting an 8 year old licensed, outfitted, set up and positioned to bag the bear smells vaguely like a stunt by an super enthusiastic hunting parent. Secondly, maybe it’s just me, but I’m just not comfortable with the notion of an 8 year old handling a high powered firearm. It doesnt strike me a good common sense. ---
**Author:** ![FisherQueen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58f4c7/32.png) [@FisherQueen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FisherQueen)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/78 "2005-10-25T22:09:27Z")
In my high school, taking off the first day of hunting season was pretty normal for a fair number of kids. Between this, the 4H fair, and senior skip day, the administration finally threw up its hands and authorized for each student one, and only one, personal day. Interestingly, the personal day policy killed senior skip day, because most of us had already taken our personal day in small groups by spring. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/79 "2005-10-25T22:14:17Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Though I do kind of find it funny that 500 bears is considered overpopulation. What about the 5,296,486 people in Maryland? We should open hunting season on them once in a while. There are a few corners in West B-more I could drop you off on\*… 😛 \*Not directed at mswas personally, generic “you”. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827/80 "2005-10-25T22:45:13Z")
> [@Nithotep](#): > > Knowing how to reload under pressure and making sure the animal is completely dead are the hallmarks of a good hunter. Under pressure from whom? (I’m not sure I’d buy any answer but “charging animals.”) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-remember-when-kilt-him-a-bar-when-he-was-only-3-was-something-to-be-admired/327827.md?page=5)