# I say "Islam" What's the first thing you think of? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 2, 2012, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515 "2012-02-02T06:08:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/281 "2012-08-26T00:03:56Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > For [it is written](http://www.islamcan.com/youth/prohibition-of-free-mixing-between-men-and-women.shtml): > > _"The Prophet (peace be upon him) also said: “It is better for one of you to be pierced by a steel pin in his head than to touch the hand of a strange woman.”_ Too bad you didn’t have an eyebrow piecing or some such; you could have just pointed at it with a smile and said “Done!” ---
**Author:** ![A\_Dodgy\_Dude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a87d85/32.png) [@A\_Dodgy\_Dude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Dodgy_Dude)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/282 "2012-08-26T16:56:45Z")
9/11 ---
**Author:** ![AdanTheSomali](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ba0ec/32.png) [@AdanTheSomali](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AdanTheSomali)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/283 "2012-08-26T17:14:47Z")
I think negative thoughts. Thank Waq I escaped that cult… ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/284 "2012-08-27T13:07:52Z")
Another massacre in the name of Islam. 17 beheaded for partying in Afghanistan: [http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/Afghanistan/17-beheaded-at-party-in-bloody-Afghan-day/Article1-920153.aspx](http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/Afghanistan/17-beheaded-at-party-in-bloody-Afghan-day/Article1-920153.aspx) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/285 "2012-08-27T16:53:45Z")
Honestly, a turban. That then morphs into a burqa. ---
**Author:** ![Lionne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Lionne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lionne)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/286 "2012-08-27T18:30:24Z")
The crescent with the star. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/287 "2012-08-28T02:29:12Z")
A religion that sucks worse–especially for women–than any other widely disseminated belief system, is more intolerant toward non-believers than any other, generates a greater percentage of rabidly malignant fanatics than any other, is more politically controlling than any other, more invasive into the personal lives of citizens where it is a majority religion than any other and has screwed up more countries than any other. Hundreds of years behind the times. In a recent Pew Research poll, anywhere from 2% to 20% of Muslims in Islamic countries they polled have a favorable opinion of al qaeda. It would be much much higher in some places, like Khyber Pukhtunkwa except it wouldn’t even be safe to poll there. The SDMB posters here would not exist unfettered in an Islamic state, and in many of them, Der Trihs’ persistent blasphemy against God would have long rendered him worthy of beheading or stoning should his real identity come to light. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/288 "2012-08-28T02:35:25Z")
Please accept my apology. I forgot the most significant item that comes to mind. You say “Islam” and I think of 10 year old girls forced to marry adult men and endure rape for years upon years. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/289 "2012-08-28T10:41:03Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Oh, come on. Are you not old enough to remember the Ayodhya riots? The 1984 Sikh riots? Communal violence is endemic in the subcontinent. Eh? One of those riots directly involved Islam (although it was not carried out by Muslims) and the other was a political incident, the only communal part of which was that the community of the assassin was targeted. And while a lot could be desired as far as relations between different religious communities go, the statement “Communal violence is endemic in the subcontinent.” is a lot further than I’d be willing to go. Also, it does not detract from **truthseeker** ’s point about Islam being responsible for a lot of violence - to the extent communal violence is present in India, it is led by (although not necessarily limited to) the presence of Islam. Also, **DT** , while you may, very arguably, be right that every religion has been responsible for a lot of shitty behaviour, I do think that in modern times there’s a reasonable case to be made for Islam to be the worst of the lot. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/290 "2012-08-28T12:53:42Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > The SDMB posters here would not exist unfettered in an Islamic state, and in many of them, Der Trihs’ persistent blasphemy against God would have long rendered him worthy of beheading or stoning should his real identity come to light. And if many of the Christians in this country could get away with it, _they’d_ imprison, torture or kill me just as enthusiastically. It’s just that they can’t. [QUOTE=Randall Terry] When I, or people like me, are running the country, you’d better flee, because we will find you, we will try you, and we will execute you. I mean every word of it. I will make it part of my mission to see to it that they are tried and executed… If we’re going to have true reformation in America, it is because men once again, if I may use a worn out expression, have righteous testosterone flowing through their veins. They are not afraid of contempt for their contemporaries. They are not even here to get along. They are here to take over. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/291 "2012-08-28T21:36:42Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And if many of the Christians in this country could get away with it, _they’d_ imprison, torture or kill me just as enthusiastically. It’s just that they can’t. Sure they can. What’s stopping them? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/292 "2012-08-29T06:16:19Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Sure they can. What’s stopping them? The fact that they can’t. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/293 "2012-08-29T09:47:16Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And if many of the Christians in this country could get away with it, _they’d_ imprison, torture or kill me just as enthusiastically. It’s just that they can’t. 5 of them? 10? Your rabidly malignant anti-christian perspective always make me chuckle, but the facts are that across the entire world today, you wouldn’t get by with expressing your (atheist) ideas in any Islamic-predominant country, and you would do fine in any christian-predominant country. It’s fun, I’m sure, to have a knee-jerk reaction that christians are mostly horrible, kept in their place by big government, but it’s ungrounded in reality. On the other hand, Islamic governments are oppressive on purpose, legally, on nationwide scales. Why not educate yourself on the blasphemy laws in Pakistan (as one of many examples) that are currently not only on the books, but actually enforced? Or maybe educate your naiveté by trucking off to an Islamic country and loudly proclaim on a street corner that Mohammend (PBUH) was a lunatic who oppressed women. Then have a little gay-lesbian pride parade (in the usual costumes) and top the day off wandering around with your girlfriend dressed for a night out in New York, anywhere outside the confines of a major metropolitan area. Finally, proselytize your atheism aggressively and seek to start up a group of active non-believers whose mission it is to turn Muslims away from religion. This would give you a little life lesson in the difference between being tolerant toward any given earnest Muslim and understanding what the practical ramifications of “Islam” are once its proponents garner a majority presence. I get it that bad folks from every religion have had their turn at being naughty. I can’t think of any group that’s been so consistently oppressive for so long, and in the modern world is so pitifully behind the times in advancing basic human freedom of thought and behaviour. I grew up in a part of the Islamic world where women were imprisoned in their houses for their entire lives, appearing in public only under a tent. I cannot begin to describe for you what a wretchedly oppressive religion this is. The pretense is that “radical Islamists” tend to be a minority, but the straight dope is that there is not a single Islamic country you can live in, in freedom. Not one. Even the most progressive ones suck if you want to be able to be Der Trihs and express your opinions openly. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/294 "2012-08-29T10:26:42Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > 5 of them? 10? Millions. > [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Your rabidly malignant anti-christian perspective always make me chuckle, but the facts are that across the entire world today, you wouldn’t get by with expressing your (atheist) ideas in any Islamic-predominant country, and you would do fine in any christian-predominant country. Nonsense. Plenty of atheists suffer harassment and worse if they admit to being atheist in America. And in much of Europe, Christianity is simply weak. > [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Why not educate yourself on the blasphemy laws in Pakistan (as one of many examples) that are currently not only on the books, but actually enforced? As if Islam invented blasphemy laws. > [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > This would give you a little life lesson in the difference between being tolerant toward any given earnest Muslim and understanding what the practical ramifications of “Islam” are once its proponents garner a majority presence. Yes I know; Islam = brown people and you think brown people are all stupid brutal subhumans. Islam is brutal and oppressive in theocracies because religions are _always_ brutal and oppressive in a theocracy. Islam, Christians, Buddhists; doesn’t matter. > [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Not one. Even the most progressive ones suck if you want to be able to be Der Trihs and express your opinions openly. What makes you think I’m dumb enough to express my opinions publicly here in America? ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/295 "2012-08-29T11:45:02Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Nonsense. Plenty of atheists suffer harassment and worse if they admit to being atheist in America. And in much of Europe, Christianity is simply weak. Harassment and worse is not the same as legally sanctioned persecution, which is exactly what you get in plenty of Islamic countries. In fact, you don’t even have to be an atheist, just a different brand of [muslim](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya#Pakistan) will do. > [@](#): > > As if Islam invented blasphemy laws. Maybe it didn’t. Fact is, it is the only major enforcer of said laws in the modern world. > [@](#): > > Yes I know; Islam = brown people and you think brown people are all stupid brutal subhumans. I’m a brown person. I don’t think I’m particularly brutal or subhuman. I still think Islam is the worst religion around today. > [@](#): > > Islam is brutal and oppressive in theocracies because religions are _always_ brutal and oppressive in a theocracy. Islam, Christians, Buddhists; doesn’t matter. No, Islam is different from other religions in that it lays down principles of governance, and considers government to _formally_ fall under its purveyance. Other religions do not. Besides, barring minor exceptions, the only theocracies that exist in the world today are Islamic. You can’t just ignore that in your hypothetical _“if other religions also ran countries, they’d be just as bad”_. Other religions don’t run countries. They may figure more in the public discourse than we’d like, but that is not the same thing. You can keep banging on your “All religions are equally evil” shtick, but the fact remains - sure all religions are bad, but in today’s world, Islam is last among equals, and by a fair margin at that. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/296 "2012-08-29T13:05:44Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > Harassment and worse is not the same as legally sanctioned persecution, which is exactly what you get in plenty of Islamic countries. Because, again, the religion there is powerful enough to do so. That is exactly what Christianity and other religions have done in places and times when _they_ could. > [@bldysabba](#): > > In fact, you don’t even have to be an atheist, just a different brand of [muslim](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya#Pakistan) will do. Like Catholics and Protestants have long done to each other. Again, not something special to Islam. > [@bldysabba](#): > > No, Islam is different from other religions in that it lays down principles of governance, and considers government to _formally_ fall under its purveyance. And so has Christianity and many other religions; then the governments in those particular nations became powerful enough to dominate the religions instead of the other way around. > [@bldysabba](#): > > Besides, barring minor exceptions, the only theocracies that exist in the world today are Islamic. You can’t just ignore that in your hypothetical _“if other religions also ran countries, they’d be just as bad”_. It’s not hypothetical, it’s historical. We know they’d be just as bad because they _were_. And not all that long ago, either. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Know\_Nothing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f04885/32.png) [@I\_Know\_Nothing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Know_Nothing)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/297 "2012-08-29T13:07:52Z")
Ranting fear baiting right wing bigots on faux news. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/298 "2012-08-29T14:24:02Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And so has Christianity and many other religions; then the governments in those particular nations became powerful enough to dominate the religions instead of the other way around. So, What should it take to beat down, weaken, reform or whatever you want to call it, a religion. Literacy? Awareness through technology in modern era(Internet, TV, Radio)? Prosperity? You’ve got all of this in oil rich Islamic states. But, they’re still Islamic states, sponsor terrorists, oppress their women, gays and religious minorities. Doesn’t that tell you that nature of Islam is different from all other religions? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/299 "2012-08-29T14:37:54Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > So, What should it take to beat down, weaken, reform or whatever you want to call it, a religion. > Literacy? > Awareness through technology in modern era(Internet, TV, Radio)? > Prosperity? > You’ve got all of this in oil rich Islamic states. But, they’re still Islamic states, sponsor terrorists, oppress their women, gays and religious minorities. Doesn’t that tell you that nature of Islam is different from all other religions? No. It’s telling me that some Islamic dominated nations are lagging a few decades behind socially, and that a lot of Christians want to demonize them in order to justify wars and massacres against them. IMHO, one of the biggest differences between the two is honesty; more of the Islamic fanatics are willing to _admit_ that they are driven by their religion to engage in aggression and oppression, while the majority of American Christians like to pretend they are not. Instead they engage in ongoing Christian Crusades against enemies of their religion like Islam or Communism, while avoiding _admitting_ their religious motivations and pretending to be spreading “freedom and democracy”. But their victims are just as dead. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/300 "2012-08-29T15:28:04Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No. It’s telling me that some Islamic dominated nations are lagging a few decades behind socially, These nations have had economic prosperity, literacy, internet, TV etc for decades now. And still they are like the way they are. On the other hand, much poorer non-Islamic states are much more tolerant and liberal. > [@](#): > > and that a lot of Christians want to demonize them in order to justify wars and massacres against them. IMHO, one of the biggest differences between the two is honesty; more of the Islamic fanatics are willing to _admit_ that they are driven by their religion to engage in aggression and oppression, while the majority of American Christians like to pretend they are not. Instead they engage in ongoing Christian Crusades against enemies of their religion like Islam or Communism, while avoiding _admitting_ their religious motivations and pretending to be spreading “freedom and democracy”. But their victims are just as dead. Apart from Christianity, Islam is at war with Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Judaism, Atheism as well as with itself, across the world. What they are showing you in the media is reality, not fiction or propaganda. Maybe you do not appreciate it because you do not experience it in the US. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515.md?page=16)