# I say "Islam" What's the first thing you think of? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 2, 2012, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515 "2012-02-02T06:08:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![florez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@florez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/florez)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/141 "2012-02-05T07:06:26Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I don’t celebrate the growth of a religion that is inherently political as well as homophobic and misogynistic. I see that as a bad thing. > > d. “inherently political, homophobic, misogynistic” are exactly the same terms I would use in describing christianity. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/142 "2012-02-05T08:25:17Z")
> [@florez](#): > > “inherently political, homophobic, misogynistic” are exactly the same terms I would use in describing christianity. True, and I’d be concerned about the increase of any religion or ideology that seeks to limit freedoms or foster intolerance, but the thread was about Islam. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/143 "2012-02-05T16:13:02Z")
Call to prayer. Some call to prayers are beautiful and haunting. But the mosque next to my house had a call to prayer that sounded like the cries of a dying chicken, played on a scratchy old record. I loved the gentle rhythms it marked out as morning turned to night. But during Ramadan, when it may well sound at three AM, I’d start considering moving to a different part of town. The next is an image of the feast after Ramadan in northern Cameroon, where everyone wears what may be their one set of new clothes for the year. I picture walking down the dusty streets, kids in slightly oversized (they grow fast!) robes rushing to ask you for sweets, while their mothers show off (and compare, no doubt) the brand new brightly colored dresses, the quality of fabric taken as a sign of how prosperous your household has been and how devoted your husband is. It’s warm, everyone is in good cheer, the place is full of children and joy and life…just a peaceful feeling. ---
**Author:** ![Teacake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Teacake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teacake)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/144 "2012-02-05T17:49:52Z")
> [@Suil\_Dubh](#): > > The first thing I think is sort of mixed negative impression of “terrorism, controversy, protests”. > > Again, I know that Islam =/= terrorism, but because of the media since 9/11, that’s my first impression. Like a few others have noted, I suspect a few of the posters here may be selectively ignoring their first impressions. With what motive would they do this? I’m curious about why you’re calling a group of people you’ve never met liars. ---
**Author:** ![scratch\_llll](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@scratch\_llll](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scratch_llll)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/145 "2012-02-05T19:39:52Z")
> [@Sudden\_Kestrel](#): > > Why would you think this? Naivete? How precious. Oh wait, you just wish to jump me for honesty right? I suppose there _could_ be some place where there isn’t daily reports of Muslim violence. Timbuktu? No wait, there are westerners being captured and ramsomed or beheaded by Mokhtar Belmokhtar there. Okay, I give. Tell he how horrible I am and how enlightened everyone else was for giving their second thoughts. Do you begin to see now? ---
**Author:** ![florez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@florez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/florez)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/146 "2012-02-05T19:41:58Z")
> [@scratch\_llll](#): > > Naivete? How precious. Oh wait, you just wish to jump me for honesty right? I suppose there _could_ be some place where there isn’t daily reports of Muslim violence. Timbuktu? No wait, there are westerners being captured and ramsomed or beheaded by Mokhtar Belmokhtar there. Okay, I give. Tell he how horrible I am and how enlightened everyone else was for giving their second thoughts. > > Do you begin to see now? I see that you think everyone must be a sponge head just because you are. ---
**Author:** ![scratch\_llll](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@scratch\_llll](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scratch_llll)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/147 "2012-02-05T19:54:59Z")
Exactly. Your response is why people are being dishonest. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/148 "2012-02-05T20:01:38Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > A clitorectomy? Or would that be too stereotypical? > [@florez](#): > > Wow:smack: > [@manila](#): > > Really? thats what you associate with Islam? Now, now, tsk, tsk. All I was doing was asking for clarification for the following: > [@lindsaybluth](#): > > What I saw in the grocery store a year or so ago: an adorable little girl with bouncy curls, 5 or so, grinning and running in the grocery store wearing a Dora the Explorer tshirt, who looks just like me at that age. Suddenly she’s scooped up by her mother wearing a niqab. My heart sinks, knowing what awaits the little girl. So what _does_ await the little girl? Roses and riches? A choice of suitors? A lifetime of happiness? ---
**Author:** ![florez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@florez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/florez)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/149 "2012-02-05T20:08:06Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Now, now, tsk, tsk. All I was doing was asking for clarification for the following: > > So what _does_ await the little girl? Roses and riches? A choice of suitors? A lifetime of happiness? clitorectomy predates Islam, but it is always nice to have a convenient scapegoat. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/150 "2012-02-05T20:15:03Z")
[Art](http://www.asia.si.edu/collections/islamic.asp). I spent a lot of time studying in the various museums on the mall. The Freer was fantastic not only for its serenity (Nat. History was more my bailiwick, but unless I was in an employee area there was no hope of concentrating) but also because it exudes scholarship. … I have no numerical appreciation or basis for asking this question, but how many/what percent of the world’s 1.6 Billion Muslim women wear full or partial covering? What percent of Jewish people wear the traditional clothes of, say, the Tallis or the ubiquitous Hassidic garb? Is that the first thing many people think of when they think of Jews? ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/151 "2012-02-05T20:15:07Z")
> [@scratch\_llll](#): > > Exactly. Your response is why people are being dishonest. He wasn’t calling you a spongehead for thinking of terrorism, but for claiming that everyone else is lying. Just because there are sometimes reports of Muslim violence (not every day but a long shot) doesn’t mean that’s the ONLY thing people can think of. ---
**Author:** ![scratch\_llll](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@scratch\_llll](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scratch_llll)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/152 "2012-02-05T20:19:02Z")
It’s a bit like the elephant in the room or more precisely the kings new clothes. I understand that when you ARE muslim you think of different things but afterall the brain IS a sponge. That is it’s purpose, to absorb information. While it is true that it parses that info, it brings to fore that which it observes most often. Most here are not muslim nor from those nations and though they may have contact with or freinds of that religion they also have daily news of muslim violence and repression. While individually they may make allowances, the part of the brain most hardwired to remember is that which associates danger. Does that make sense or are you still disposed to anger at my honesty? ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/153 "2012-02-05T20:19:44Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > He wasn’t calling you a spongehead for thinking of terrorism, but for claiming that everyone else is lying. Just because there are sometimes reports of Muslim violence (not every day but a long shot) doesn’t mean that’s the ONLY thing people can think of. Further, such violence has a slew of adjectives before you get to Islam. Poor. Developing world. Anti-imperialist. Fucknuts. Wankers. Thugs. Cretins … there’s a long list. If someone is naive enough to believe that the prime (or second or third) motivation for most terrorist acts is religion, that’s just evidence of a mind lacking in critical reasoning or analytical skills. If thirty of fifty years ago (or today?) someone asked “what’s the first thing that you think of when I say ‘black man’”, lots of people would say–and then justify–“criminal.” It’s the same here. Linking Islam to terrorism is politically advantageous, and hearing/buying the message is as honest and understandable as the black-thug connection. ---
**Author:** ![YoDoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e68b1a/32.png) [@YoDoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YoDoc)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/154 "2012-02-05T20:29:28Z")
And just like the black criminals of however long ago, there wasn’t anything inherent in their Muslim-ness that predisposes them to terrorism. There is, however, a set of circumstances and oppression that facilitates it. Muslim, islamic, whatever terrorism is a fact, but the term implies connections that aren’t there. ---
**Author:** ![florez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@florez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/florez)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/155 "2012-02-05T20:31:55Z")
[QUOTE=Rhythmdvl;14742766 If thirty of fifty years ago (or today?) someone asked “what’s the first thing that you think of when I say ‘black man’”, lots of people would say–and then justify–“criminal.” It’s the same here. Linking Islam to terrorism is politically advantageous, and hearing/buying the message is as honest and understandable as the black-thug connection.[/QUOTE] So you are saying that most people cannot figure out the motivation behind the information they are absorbing, so they are being dishonest by not just jumping on the bandwagon with negative stereotyping, and answering with rage against the perceived bad guys? ---
**Author:** ![YoDoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e68b1a/32.png) [@YoDoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YoDoc)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/156 "2012-02-05T20:37:25Z")
> [@florez](#): > > So you are saying that most people cannot figure out the motivation behind the information they are absorbing, so they are being dishonest by not just jumping on the bandwagon with negative stereotyping, and answering with rage against the perceived bad guys? This is confusing, but… No? Who is this responding to? ---
**Author:** ![scratch\_llll](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@scratch\_llll](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scratch_llll)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/157 "2012-02-05T20:39:55Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Further, such violence has a slew of adjectives before you get to Islam. Poor. Developing world. Anti-imperialist. Fucknuts. Wankers. Thugs. Cretins … there’s a long list. If someone is naive enough to believe that the prime (or second or third) motivation for most terrorist acts is religion, that’s just evidence of a mind lacking in critical reasoning or analytical skills. > > If thirty of fifty years ago (or today?) someone asked “what’s the first thing that you think of when I say ‘black man’”, lots of people would say–and then justify–“criminal.” It’s the same here. Linking Islam to terrorism is politically advantageous, and hearing/buying the message is as honest and understandable as the black-thug connection. Not true for the reason stated above your post. The brain is evolutionarily developed to first and foremost protect survival. Our reasoning comes second. I’m sure in muslim countries that reports of such violence are few but in the US they are daily and often many times daily and I don’t even watch Fox. On this forum you can’t even be honest without recieving a bismirching of character because it is so touchy a subject and we are supposed to be enlightened but instead it is pack behavior to beat the neandertahls into line with condemnation without consideration of facts when they apply. Afterall, I never said that the immediate violent impression was true overall but merely that it was first. ---
**Author:** ![florez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@florez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/florez)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/158 "2012-02-05T20:43:17Z")
> [@scratch\_llll](#): > > It’s a bit like the elephant in the room or more precisely the kings new clothes. I understand that when you ARE muslim you think of different things but afterall the brain IS a sponge. That is it’s purpose, to absorb information. While it is true that it parses that info, it brings to fore that which it observes most often. Most here are not muslim nor from those nations and though they may have contact with or freinds of that religion they also have daily news of muslim violence and repression. While individually they may make allowances, the part of the brain most hardwired to remember is that which associates danger. > > Does that make sense or are you still disposed to anger at my honesty? I was probably responding to this, and I am starting to understand where you are coming from, but does that not also insult the intelligence of the posters? ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/159 "2012-02-05T20:44:23Z")
> [@florez](#): > > So you are saying that most people cannot figure out the motivation behind the information they are absorbing, so they are being dishonest by not just jumping on the bandwagon with negative stereotyping, and answering with rage against the perceived bad guys? I have no idea what you’re saying, so can’t agree or disagree. Where are you getting ‘dishonest’ from? ‘Bandwagon’? ‘Rage against the perceived bad guys’? Bizarre. It used to be “common knowledge” that black people committed more crime. (Given the disparity in prison populations, I’m not sure that’s an entirely extinguished idea.) Were there correlative links between race (whatever construct you want to attach there) and crime? Yes, but there were stronger linkages between poverty and legal treatment. Just as someone could honestly hold the view that thre is nothing wrong with immediately linking black and crime, it’s entirely possible to link Islam and terrorism. There is a large industry (wnd, p. Gelllar, etc.) that profits heavily from promoting the connection. But that’s not my main point. The seed of all this was someone’s incredulity that other’s don’t make the Islam/crime connection and suggesting that they’re being duplicitous. I understand why someone would make the connection–just as I understand why someone would make the black/crime connection in 1950. But neither connection is particularly valid. It’s entirely possible to hear of violence and not immediately pair it with Islam, just as it is easy to hear of a crime and assume the perpetrator was black. ETA: things got a bit higgly-piggly quote-wise. Not sure if florez meant to be responded to, or … or something. ---
**Author:** ![YoDoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e68b1a/32.png) [@YoDoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YoDoc)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515/160 "2012-02-05T20:49:48Z")
I think it’s easier to hear “violence” and not think “islam” than the other way round. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-say-islam-whats-the-first-thing-you-think-of/611515.md?page=9)