# I sentence you to insanity! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 22, 2006, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711 "2006-06-22T13:27:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/1 "2006-06-22T13:27:22Z")
For several years I have avoided this subject in the interests of respecting privacy, but I can’t pass [this up](http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/06/21/smart.case.ap/index.html). Some may say insanity is a fate worse than death. So be it. Don’t give her (or him, if it should come up,) any mind-affecting medication. Our tax dollars are not worth helping those who decided to live outside society. I revel in the thought that both perpetrators might spend decades chased by unshakable pain, unable to form coherent thoughts and bearing an almost unbearable burden of demons from within. Even if they don’t reflect on what they did they won’t be safe. I’m sick. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/2 "2006-06-22T13:45:09Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I’m sick. You should be _medicated_, then… ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/3 "2006-06-22T14:31:28Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Our tax dollars are not worth helping those who decided to live outside society. Even if that would expose prison guards to unnecessary danger from psychotic inmates? Some sense of righteous retribution you have there. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/4 "2006-06-22T14:38:01Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > Even if that would expose prison guards to unnecessary danger from psychotic inmates? Some sense of righteous retribution you have there. On the contrary, guard don’t have to be exposed at all. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/5 "2006-06-22T14:39:28Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > On the contrary, guard don’t have to be exposed at all. Elucidate. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/6 "2006-06-22T14:45:43Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > Elucidate. Yes, please do. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/7 "2006-06-22T14:54:00Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > Even if that would expose prison guards to unnecessary danger from psychotic inmates? Some sense of righteous retribution you have there. There’s nothing in the article to indicate that the patient is dangerous to guards or to herself. “Psychotic” doesn’t always mean dangerous. She could be catatonic, for all I know. I’d separate the issue into two categories: aggressive towards others and not. The first, I’d support forced medication (or alternatively, solitary confinment with no medical care, though that’s a bit harsh even for a person with no grasp of reality). The second - let them stay unmedicated if they wish. ---
**Author:** ![Earthworm\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f07891/32.png) [@Earthworm\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earthworm_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/8 "2006-06-22T14:54:47Z")
I’m not certain I understand…Isn’t it more important that the defendant was mentally competent at the time the crime was committed, rather than during the trial? I have to assume this enforced medication doesn’t preclude an “insanity” plea. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/9 "2006-06-22T14:57:29Z")
> [@Earthworm Jim](#): > > I’m not certain I understand…Isn’t it more important that the defendant was mentally competent at the time the crime was committed, rather than during the trial? I have to assume this enforced medication doesn’t preclude an “insanity” plea. It’s important that the defendant be competent during the trial so that she may participate in her defense. If the defendant’s hallucinating, hearing voices, so paranoid that she thinks her own defense lawyers are out to get her, and so forth, she cannot assist in her defense and is deprived of a fair trial. In America we consider that a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/10 "2006-06-22T15:01:02Z")
> [@Earthworm Jim](#): > > I’m not certain I understand…Isn’t it more important that the defendant was mentally competent at the time the crime was committed, rather than during the trial? I have to assume this enforced medication doesn’t preclude an “insanity” plea. No, but if you’re sufficiently crazy at the time of trial, it makes you unable to assist in your own defense, which - at least according to the l33t criminal law education I’ve gotten from Law & Order - is sufficient to avoid a trial. I mean, if the person is nutso enough that they can’t even communicate with their lawyer, then there’s no way to give them a real trial. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/11 "2006-06-22T15:03:13Z")
Of course, there is also the issue of a state (I think it is Texas -sigh) who wants to medicate a man so he is competent enough to be executed. How close are we to the point of being able to change a persons brain chemistry to achieve whatever goal we desire? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/12 "2006-06-22T15:09:12Z")
I’m torn on this subject. I don’t believe in forced medication but I also think that a fair trial is impossible without it. It won’t change the state of mind she was in when she committed the crime, and I’m confident the medication would have a positive effect on the quality of her defense. But forcing medication? Hmmm…that really doesn’t sit right with me. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/13 "2006-06-22T15:09:26Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > Yes, please do. :dubious: Isolation, producing the nice side effect of not helping the psychiatric condition of the patient either. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/14 "2006-06-22T15:14:13Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Isolation, producing the nice side effect of not helping the psychiatric condition of the patient either. So all inmates with treatable mental illnesses should be put in solitary confinement? Jeez, you must like raising taxes more than I do. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/15 "2006-06-22T15:15:36Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Isolation, producing the nice side effect of not helping the psychiatric condition of the patient either. Feel the love… ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/16 "2006-06-22T15:16:53Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Isolation, producing the nice side effect of not helping the psychiatric condition of the patient either. Guards, nurses, and doctors will still have to interact with them periodically. And people are sent to prisons as a punishment, not to _be_ punished. Would you like to have a career where the expectation is that you torment people? Or even one where you must witness their continual torment? Even if society decides that such torment is justified, such a job will take a terrible, terrible toll on the person doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/17 "2006-06-22T15:19:24Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > No, but if you’re sufficiently crazy at the time of trial, it makes you unable to assist in your own defense, which - at least according to the l33t criminal law education I’ve gotten from Law & Order - is sufficient to avoid a trial. I mean, if the person is nutso enough that they can’t even communicate with their lawyer, then there’s no way to give them a real trial. Speaking of L&O, I think I just saw a rerun the other day that used this. A crazy guy raped and killed his girlfriend, and when he was about to go on trial he stopped taking his meds and went catatonic. The judge ruled that he could be forcibly medicated so that he could participate in his own defense. I wonder if there will be a disclaimer at the start of this trial that says, “The events of this trial were based on a Law & Order script.” ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/18 "2006-06-22T15:24:18Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > Would you like to have a career where the expectation is that you torment people? Naw, it’s more of an avocation. If you look at my previous posting history I am normally the first person to advocate for humane conditions and against punishments including the death penalty, but that it only because some of those affected aren’t guilty. While I acknowledge the intellectual possibility in this case I just can’t be objective about it, which is another reason I have avoided this topic. To answer your question, yes, I would sacrifice some of the mental health and safety of prison workers in order to inflict punishment on the _guilty_. Only problem is, how can you be %100 sure? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/19 "2006-06-22T15:27:06Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > To answer your question, yes, I would sacrifice some of the mental health and safety of prison workers in order to inflict punishment on the _guilty_. Say **Ludovic** , what’s it like to live in the 17th century? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/20 "2006-06-22T15:29:08Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Naw, it’s more of an avocation. If you look at my previous posting history I am normally the first person to advocate for humane conditions and against punishments including the death penalty, but that it only because some of those affected aren’t guilty. While I acknowledge the intellectual possibility in this case I just can’t be objective about it, which is another reason I have avoided this topic. > > To answer your question, yes, I would sacrifice some of the mental health and safety of prison workers in order to inflict punishment on the _guilty_. Only problem is, how can you be %100 sure? That’s not the _only_ problem. One other would be why would a person want to be a heartless sadist? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711.md?page=2)