# I sentence you to insanity! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 22, 2006, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711 "2006-06-22T13:27:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/21 "2006-06-22T15:29:17Z")
[QUOTE=Ludovic] To answer your question, yes, I would sacrifice some of the mental health and safety of prison workers in order to inflict punishment on the _guilty_. Only problem is, how can you be %100 sure? [/QUOTE] ::blinking in surprise:: I thought\*\* _I_\*\* was the evil one hereabouts. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/22 "2006-06-22T15:30:10Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] Say **Ludovic** , what’s it like to live in the 17th century? [/QUOTE] Well, they also had the Inquisition, not known for its enlightened stance on the possibility of innocence. But other than that, I feel fine. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/23 "2006-06-22T15:33:53Z")
[QUOTE=Ludovic] To answer your question, yes, I would sacrifice some of the mental health and safety of prison workers in order to inflict punishment on the _guilty_. [/QUOTE] Good to know. I’ll make a note of it. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/24 "2006-06-22T16:36:49Z")
[QUOTE=Ludovic] To answer your question, yes, I would sacrifice some of the mental health and safety of prison workers in order to inflict punishment on the _guilty_. Only problem is, how can you be %100 sure? [/QUOTE] So you’d punish 10 innocents in order to punish the one guilty, basically? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/25 "2006-06-22T16:39:39Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] So you’d punish 10 innocents in order to punish the one guilty, basically? [/QUOTE] How did that calculus come about? Furthermore, if we were %100 certain that the people incarcerated were guilty, I’m sure it wouldn’t be as traumatic to watch them suffer. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/26 "2006-06-22T16:56:39Z")
[QUOTE=Ludovic] How did that calculus come about? Furthermore, if we were %100 certain that the people incarcerated were guilty, I’m sure it wouldn’t be as traumatic to watch them suffer. [/QUOTE] You’re a cunt. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/27 "2006-06-22T17:01:09Z")
[QUOTE=woodstockbirdybird] You’re a cunt. [/QUOTE] A _dumb_ one. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/28 "2006-06-22T17:01:54Z")
[QUOTE=Ludovic] How did that calculus come about? Furthermore, if we were %100 certain that the people incarcerated were guilty, I’m sure it wouldn’t be as traumatic to watch them suffer. [/QUOTE] It wasn’t an exact calculation-I just pulled numbers out of my ass. My point is-how many innocents suffering is worth it to punish one guilty person? ---
**Author:** ![Daithi\_Lacha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daithi_lacha/32/5430_2.png) [@Daithi\_Lacha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daithi_Lacha)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/29 "2006-06-22T17:03:33Z")
Does no-one find it exceedingly odd that husband and wife are now insane, and yet at the time the kidnapping occured, both were on the ball enough to leave very little in the way of clues, and keep the child hidden for nine months, while on the move? That must have meant they knew the difference between right and wrong, and were able to communicate cohererently with each other, to be able to plan and implement those plans. What are the chances that both would now suddenly be incompetent? :dubious: to the 9th power ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/30 "2006-06-22T17:08:38Z")
As I remember it (and I don’t particularly trust my aging memory) I think the woman was pretty wigged-out when they picked them up. I don’t recall the man’s condition too much, but you can be pretty mental and still appear to be functioning normally. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/31 "2006-06-22T17:10:33Z")
[QUOTE=Ludovic] Furthermore, if we were %100 certain that the people incarcerated were guilty, I’m sure it wouldn’t be as traumatic to watch them suffer. [/QUOTE] I’d be concerned that anyone who is willing to do that job is just as violent and mentally ill as the prisoners they are “punishing.” And then there’s that whole cruel and unusual part of the constitution, but I guess you aren’t factoring that into your little scenario. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/32 "2006-06-22T17:31:03Z")
There’d be a lot of other stuff I’d be willing to change given the dramatic revisions in epistemology necessary to pursue my scenario. So yes, in that case I wouldn’t mind cruel and unusual punishment. OTOH: – I’d only support this for _just_ laws, and – There is always the argument that other people could turn this punishment against myself or political enemies, So that’s 3 reasons not to implement it in actuality. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/33 "2006-06-22T17:34:21Z")
[QUOTE=Ludovic] To answer your question, yes, I would sacrifice some of the mental health and safety of prison workers in order to inflict punishment on the _guilty_. [/QUOTE] Are you aware that our own Dr. **Qadgop** is one of those prison workers whose mental health and safety you are assigning such low importance to? That you are stupid, and a cunt, and a stupid cunt appears to have been established. Right now I’m interested in whether we should be adding “clueless” or “evil” to the list. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/34 "2006-06-22T17:39:06Z")
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99] Are you aware that our own Dr. **Qadgop** is one of those prison workers whose mental health and safety you are assigning such low importance to? That you are stupid, and a cunt, and a stupid cunt appears to have been established. Right now I’m interested in whether we should be adding “clueless” or “evil” to the list. [/QUOTE] You, OTOH are much more eager to assert certainty than I. Who’s being careless now? ---
**Author:** ![zagloba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/977dab/32.png) [@zagloba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zagloba)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/35 "2006-06-22T17:47:03Z")
[QUOTE=Daithi Lacha] Does no-one find it exceedingly odd that husband and wife are now insane, and yet at the time the kidnapping occured, both were on the ball enough to leave very little in the way of clues, and keep the child hidden for nine months, while on the move? [/QUOTE] Without commenting on their sanity, for most of that time she wasn’t all that well hidden. Take a listen to Scott Carrier’s radio piece “Invisible Girl”, linked at the bottom of [this page](http://www.hearingvoices.com/radio/0506.html) : > [@](#): > > For weeks after teenager Elizabeth Smart was kidnapped from her Salt Lake City bedroom, she walked the streets with her captors, sometimes just blocks from her home. Yet no one ever recognized her. Not a soul, even though her picture was in every paper the entire time. This story was first broadcast on “This American Life,” and is a fascinating listen. Carrier lived in Smart’s neighborhood. IIRC, Carrier’s son describes seeing Smart and her captors around town. Many people just assumed the guy had taken a plural wife. ---
**Author:** ![Ghanima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Ghanima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ghanima)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/36 "2006-06-22T17:48:53Z")
[QUOTE=Daithi Lacha] Does no-one find it exceedingly odd that husband and wife are now insane, and yet at the time the kidnapping occured, both were on the ball enough to leave very little in the way of clues, and keep the child hidden for nine months, while on the move? That must have meant they knew the difference between right and wrong, and were able to communicate cohererently with each other, to be able to plan and implement those plans. What are the chances that both would now suddenly be incompetent? :dubious: to the 9th power [/QUOTE] With all due respect, I disagree. If I believed that I was the messiah and that policemen were instruments of the devil to be avoided at all costs, and that my many underaged husbands (as commanded by God) would be taken from me by these devil-worshipping villains, and therefore I was very careful to avoid detection, would that mean that I really knew the difference between right and wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/37 "2006-06-22T17:50:02Z")
[QUOTE=Ghanima] With all due respect, I disagree. If I believed that I was the messiah and that policemen were instruments of the devil to be avoided at all costs, and that my many underaged husbands (as commanded by God) would be taken from me by these devil-worshipping villains, and therefore I was very careful to avoid detection, would that mean that I really knew the difference between right and wrong? [/QUOTE] **Ghanima** , is there something you’re not telling us? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/38 "2006-06-22T17:51:34Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] **Ghanima** , is there something you’re not telling us? [/QUOTE] It means she has interesting hobbies. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/39 "2006-06-22T17:54:50Z")
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99] Are you aware that our own Dr. **Qadgop** is one of those prison workers whose mental health and safety you are assigning such low importance to? That you are stupid, and a cunt, and a stupid cunt appears to have been established. Right now I’m interested in whether we should be adding “clueless” or “evil” to the list. [/QUOTE] Ahem…that’s _dumb_. _Dumb_ cunt. Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![Daithi\_Lacha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daithi_lacha/32/5430_2.png) [@Daithi\_Lacha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daithi_Lacha)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711/40 "2006-06-22T17:56:14Z")
[QUOTE=zagloba] Without commenting on their sanity, for most of that time she wasn’t all that well hidden. Take a listen to Scott Carrier’s radio piece “Invisible Girl”, linked at the bottom of [this page](http://www.hearingvoices.com/radio/0506.html) :This story was first broadcast on “This American Life,” and is a fascinating listen. Carrier lived in Smart’s neighborhood. IIRC, Carrier’s son describes seeing Smart and her captors around town. Many people just assumed the guy had taken a plural wife. [/QUOTE] Thank you very much for that link. And **Ghanima** , a good point, and well made. I retract my opinion, without prejudice. Seems like there’s no counting the screw-ups walking around out there! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sentence-you-to-insanity/361711.md?page=3)