I sentence you to insanity!

Speak for yourself, pal.

I’m always amused (amused? that’s not right. appalled! that’s it) I’m always appalled at those who believe the solution to punishing criminals includes the agents of society being more inhumane than the criminals themselves.

Around here, one can’t keep track of the epithets without a scorecard.

Ludovic, I can’t help but get this vibe that you advocate inflicting horrible torment on criminals who also happen to be mentally ill. That’s not justice; that’s sadistic, bloodthirsty revenge, and no civilized person would ever consider it. Seriously, what the hell are you smoking? “Decided to live outside society”? Are you honestly saying that these people just up and decided one day to go crazy? Maybe gave themselves a little icepick lobotomy to speed up the process? And you say you would “revel” in their pain and suffering? It sounds like you have some seriously deep insecurity issues, pal.

If you just forgot to take your meds today and you’re feeling cranky and a little bit sociopathic, I forgive you.

Otherwise, fuck you, you fucking sick sack of… crap. Yeah, I’m not too good at this swearing thing.

I’m not saying I don’t deserve these epithets, yet I can’t help but feel this way. Normally, even if guilt is %100 assured, the intellectual side of me wishes to impose a punishment that minimizes the suffering of those not guilty, whether it be death, imprisonment, torture, fluffy bunny huggies, or what have you. But there’s something about this that makes me feel differently, and I don’t like it, which is a reason I have avoided this topic for so long.

Were you subjected to abuse as a child, or did your parents inflict painful physical punishment on you? I have noticed a correlation between posters who share your need for strict retribution, and a history of child abuse. Care to share?

That’s ok. I really just wanted to call him a cunt again.


Translation, please.

Or not. I’m sure something will always be lost when going to English from Clueless-and/or-evil-dumb-(yes, thank you, Kalhoun)-cunt-ese.

Now now, cunts actually have their uses. Perhaps we should call him a Kevin Federline, or Pauly Shore.

You know, it was just the night before last as I was heading to my car after a fine day at work. Really it had been a good day. Just as I reached the car I was barely able to resist a sudden urge to just drop to the ground and cry my eyes out as if God Himself had come to me personally and told me that I wouldn’t be joining Him in heaven. A massive wave of depression you might call it. Lasted about 5 or 6 hours and eventually faded into a mild general malaise (and yeah–I’m drugged so it used to be worse). It was then that I had a mental illness epiphany, one that might be of interest to our Ludovic.

I feel safe in saying that almost everyone has used an excess of a drug at least once in their lives. Most commonly abused would be alcohol, nicotine and caffeine. Now you know that these drugs can affect the way you think, the way your senses react to their environment, and how you intepret your world. Someone who’s really drunk might become consumed by one emotion–anger, sadness, happiness–and still be able to think to himself, “woah…I’m a bit out of control here” and not be able to overpower that emotion and so the extreme behavior associated with the emotion–fighting, bawling, lovin&laughin’–continues. In my experience with a sometimes debilitating emotional disorder, it’s a very similar sensation. Only the “drug” comes from within and is applied without warning and without control. The result is, from my perspective, an unsettling and violent change in mood and perception that comes out of nowhere. What others see as moody or “wacky” is really a nightmare of uncertain reality, unpredictable moods, and often hallucinations.

My point is, I live my life in MY world, and my world changes in hundreds of tiny ways every day depending on what my brains are up to. And quite frankly, in the midst of a psychotic episode, I will do what I KNOW to be right…but “normal” folks will view those actions as less than appropriate. Can you punish, even torture, someone who thought that the actions they took were appropriate when they took them? How about if those actions included a solid paranoia-based belief that brain candy drugs like Prozac, lithium, M&Ms, etc…are really mind-control drugs? Ever taken them? It’s CREEPY when you notice their effects. That creepiness alone is pretty convincing when you’re entertaining the thought that maybe they’re mind-control drugs. What SANE person would willingly take mind-control drugs that would allow them to be manipulated by some potentially nefarious entity?

This is a tough problem for most people, not just Ludovic. Because it means that they must make the decision between relaxing their grip on their own reality long enough to understand where the “criminal” is coming from, or admitting to themselves that they really care nothing for anyone’s thoughts but their own. Really. because the person that cries out for horrible retribution to avenge a third party is doing so ONLY because it makes HIM feel better about the whole event.

So in this particular case, the only difference between the punished and the punisher is which side of the bars each one is on.

However, the C-word is more hurting, because not only does the user call you what they consider a low-down epithet, they also assert their belief in a system where that organ is shameful. So even if they don’t consider you equivalent to one, that’s still one more person you’re up against if you want to fight against that sort of polarizing, negative thought.

What, like to keep a pen in or something?

Hey, every one of us (other than the Caesarean-extracted) emerged from one, even you. The fact that you’ve had no further use for one doesn’t alter their utility. :stuck_out_tongue:

Plus there’s no reason to ever lose your car keys . . .


So you’re willing to sacrifice the mental health of hte corrections personnel who must interact with the person you deem a pariah? What’s your suggested plan of action when one of those whose mental health was sacrificed, on their off hours, does something inhumane (such as kidnaping and rape) after they’ve lost their mental health? Are you going to have them treated the same way? That’s quite a pyramid scheme you’ll have there.

Well hell, why not go all the way? You’re a convicted murderer, and you’re a diabetic? No insulin for you! You need anti-seizure meds? Hey, this is prison, not Club Med!

Every once in a while, I wonder if I should revisit my reasons for now being 100% anti-death penalty. Then I read stuff like this thread and realize there’s no reason t revisit those reasons.

Of kaylasdad99 and you, who was the one who made the decision to start the thread, a move requiring certainty?

Meanwhile, you appear not to have thought out your plan of action quite as … unassailably as you might have initially believed. Putting people in knowingly and purposefully unsafe situations, and having not a hell of a lot in place (unless there’s something I missed, of course) to help them not become the people they’re serving, … seems a bit short-sighted, not to mention inhumane and perpetuating the very thing you are trying to lessen.

Nope, but I have witnessed clear situations where a child showed obvious signs of being abused when I was a child, but no one would believe me. And then they turned out to be true.

And then when I turned into a teenager, people suspected me of being interested in children. Well, in a more than friendly way. No legal action but it’s understandable that it affected me greatly while I was still growing up.

Is it fair that people get away with stuff like that and are considered perfectly normal members of society, and people apparently wink and smile at their crimes against humanity, while I am nearly ostracized for being friendly? After all, if I had “tried harder” to talk to the child before, when I was 12, she might have opened up to me and given me firmer evidence that I could have used to prevent it.

And this woman, I won’t glorify her name in print, doesn’t even know what it’s like to be turned away from a volunteer position just because of her gender. She would have been more accepted. Her murderous overmistress would have been more accepted and praised as a “loving caregiver.” Is that right?

No problem is solved when you give in to the base instinct to be cruel. It doesn’t resolve feelings of rage; it just feeds on itself. You become more like that thing for which you hold contempt.

And yes, unfairness can make us bitter or we can rise above it in time. Certainly, it happens to all of us and it can be hell.

Now, I’ll admit American law has me a little confused, but can I ask for some clarification please?

  1. The people in question receive anti-psychotics, participate in their defence, and are found guilty- will they be sent to a secure psychiatric hospital, a psychiatric ward in a prison, or gen pop? Presumably, if they are found not guilty by reason of insanity, they’ll go straight to a secure psychiatric hospital.

  2. If they do not receive treatment, will they be held indefinitely in a psychiatric unit or relased to the community?

  3. If they are medicated and the medication fails to return them to a mental state where they can participate in a trial, what happens next?

Oh, and Ludovic, you’re an idiot with serious empathy problems and a big fucking chip on your shoulder.

I feel you aren’t making any friends here, Ludovic. Better hope Qdgop never has an excuse to rectal probe you.