# I should probably ask Click & Clack **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 14, 2012, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-should-probably-ask-click-clack/615719 "2012-03-14T04:46:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Penguinlady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f05b48/32.png) [@Penguinlady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penguinlady)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-should-probably-ask-click-clack/615719/21 "2012-03-14T20:31:54Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > If this is one of those fancy keyless entry models where they key fob stays in your pocket and you push a button on the dashboard to start the engine, then almost certainly the headlights aren’t coming on until the engine is running. If that’s the case, then it doesn’t matter whether you have the headlight switch in “AUTO” or “OFF” when you start the car. Yes, it is, and we love it. But I appreciate your last two sentences, which answer my original question. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Penguinlady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f05b48/32.png) [@Penguinlady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penguinlady)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-should-probably-ask-click-clack/615719/22 "2012-03-14T20:33:27Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > I would need a cite for that statement before I even consider analyzing the rest of your post. Because I used to think that was true and Tom and Ray was who explained to me that it isn’t. I don’t write down the content of each show I listen to, so I can’t cite it. And they probably said “battery” or “starter” instead of engine. But they DID say it, probably a few years ago, or I wouldn’t have gotten the idea, since I know nothing at all about cars. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-should-probably-ask-click-clack/615719/23 "2012-03-15T00:33:30Z")
The consensus here seems to be that starting the engine with the headlight on will have little or no effect on engine wear. Now the question about if Click and Clack ever said it would might be best answered by Click and Clack. ---
**Author:** ![Penguinlady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f05b48/32.png) [@Penguinlady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penguinlady)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-should-probably-ask-click-clack/615719/24 "2012-03-15T00:48:10Z")
They prolly didn’t say the engine would be damaged, but they equally prolly said that the battery or starter might be. I didn’t imagine it; I merely got the mechanical details wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Lukeinva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lukeinva/32/17872_2.png) [@Lukeinva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lukeinva)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-should-probably-ask-click-clack/615719/25 "2012-03-15T01:24:47Z")
_Trying_ to start the engine with a weak battery might could cause damage. If the battery was weak the lights on might further weaken it which might then cause the starter to grind and/or turn the engine over too slowly, which might cause some internal friction. That is all pretty farfetched though. In actuality, the only harm in having your lights on while starting the car is it _might_ weaken the battery. ---
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-should-probably-ask-click-clack/615719/26 "2012-03-15T01:38:35Z")
In my car, the lights don’t come on until the hand brake is released. I thought that was true of all auto-on lights. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-should-probably-ask-click-clack/615719/27 "2012-03-15T02:30:15Z")
> [@Lukeinva](#): > > _Trying_ to start the engine with a weak battery might could cause damage. To what, and how? > [@](#): > > If the battery was weak the lights on might further weaken it which might then cause the starter to grind and/or turn the engine over too slowly, which might cause some internal friction. That is all pretty farfetched though. That is beyond farfetched. There is no way it could cause the starter to grind, there is no such thing (in terms of possibly causing damage) as the engine turning over too slowly, and it would have no effect on anything’s friction. ---
**Author:** ![Eureka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/74df32/32.png) [@Eureka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-should-probably-ask-click-clack/615719/28 "2012-03-15T11:41:53Z")
> [@picunurse](#): > > In my car, the lights don’t come on until the hand brake is released. I thought that was true of all auto-on lights. Nope. Not true of my Saturn (to the best of my knowledge). My lights come on when I put the car into gear. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-should-probably-ask-click-clack/615719/29 "2012-03-15T12:09:18Z")
> [@thelabdude](#): > > Click and Clack are entertainers. I put zero credibility in their auto advice. Exactly. This is one reason I don’t listen to them, because every I do listen to them I find myself screaming at the radio “No you flipping idiot that is not how it works.” So for the sake of my blood pressure I do not listen to them. > [@beowulff](#): > > I seriously doubt they ever said anything like what the OP is saying. It would not surprise me in the least. It would about as accurate as much of the other crap I have heard from them. ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-should-probably-ask-click-clack/615719/30 "2012-03-15T16:42:03Z")
Note, I don’t think they are any better at entertaining than giving auto advice. ---
**Author:** ![Penguinlady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f05b48/32.png) [@Penguinlady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penguinlady)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-should-probably-ask-click-clack/615719/31 "2012-03-15T18:00:28Z")
Wow, I didn’t realize that there are so many doctoral engineers and 30-year mechanic-garage owners here - I’m impressed. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-should-probably-ask-click-clack/615719/32 "2012-03-15T18:02:10Z")
> [@Penguinlady](#): > > Wow, I didn’t realize that there are so many doctoral engineers and 30-year mechanic-garage owners here - I’m impressed. Yeah, on the Internet, everyone is an expert… ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-should-probably-ask-click-clack/615719/33 "2012-03-15T18:21:22Z")
> [@Penguinlady](#): > > Wow, I didn’t realize that there are so many doctoral engineers and 30-year mechanic-garage owners here - I’m impressed. FTR later this year I will be celebrating my 45 year in the auto repair business. Besides being an [ASE master automotive technician](http://www.ase.com/About-ASE/ASE-at-a-Glance.aspx), I spent 15 years as a technical instructor for a major car company, I am currently a service manager at a large Asian new car dealership, and I have also worked as a line technician for several different makes of European cars. As well as managed a parts warehouse, worked in both independent garages, and gas stations. **Gary T** owns his own independent shop, and has for many many years. While I don’t know about Gary, but no I do not have a doctorate, but then again, I can fix cars, and explain how they work. Just because someone is an expert in one field, that does not make them a expert in all fields. So unless his doctorate is in auto repair, my question is so what? ---
**Author:** ![Eureka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/74df32/32.png) [@Eureka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-should-probably-ask-click-clack/615719/34 "2012-03-15T18:37:54Z")
> [@Eureka](#): > > Nope. Not true of my Saturn (to the best of my knowledge). My lights come on when I put the car into gear. And I have now determined that my knowledge was faulty–I usually undo the parking brake before I put my car into gear, but today I determined that if I leave my car in gear and set the parking break, poof go the lights. Or at least, poof goes the light symbol on the dashboard. ---
**Author:** ![Penguinlady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f05b48/32.png) [@Penguinlady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penguinlady)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-should-probably-ask-click-clack/615719/35 "2012-03-15T18:44:26Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > FTR later this year I will be celebrating my 45 year in the auto repair business. Besides being an [ASE master automotive technician](http://www.ase.com/About-ASE/ASE-at-a-Glance.aspx), I spent 15 years as a technical instructor for a major car company, I am currently a service manager at a large Asian new car dealership, and I have also worked as a line technician for several different makes of European cars. As well as managed a parts warehouse, worked in both independent garages, and gas stations. > **Gary T** owns his own independent shop, and has for many many years. > While I don’t know about Gary, but no I do not have a doctorate, but then again, I can fix cars, and explain how they work. > Just because someone is an expert in one field, that does not make them a expert in all fields. So unless his doctorate is in auto repair, my question is so what? I believe it’s from MIT in automotive engineering, and they also fix cars and know how they work. My point is not to try to compare relative experience, but that so many people seem to think that because they are amusing and on the air, they don’t know anything. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-should-probably-ask-click-clack/615719/36 "2012-03-15T18:47:18Z")
> [@Penguinlady](#): > > Wow, I didn’t realize that there are so many doctoral engineers and 30-year mechanic-garage owners here - I’m impressed. I took this at face value, since the thread didn’t have any precursor of sarcasm… > [@beowulff](#): > > Yeah, on the Internet, everyone is an expert… …but perhaps you read it as snark, and followed in kind? No doctorate here either, but I do have a BA in biology, which means I’ve had some instruction in math, physics, and chemistry, and I know how science works. I’m just shy of 40 years of professional auto repair and I’m in my 16th year of having my own shop. I believe **thelabdude** has a chemistry degree, and I know we have several engineers of various stripes here on the Dope. While that doesn’t mean they know all about cars, they would tend to have a better-than-the-average-layman grasp of mechanical principles and chemical processes that underlie automotive technology. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-should-probably-ask-click-clack/615719/37 "2012-03-15T19:06:51Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > I I believe **thelabdude** has a chemistry degree, and I know we have several engineers of various stripes here on the Dope. While that doesn’t mean they know all about cars, they would tend to have a better-than-the-average-layman grasp of mechanical principles and chemical processes that underlie automotive technology. I’d fit that general description and I’ve rarely thought NO FUCKING WAY ! Mr Click and Clack when it comes to general engineering and automotive explanations that they have made. Of course they have to dumb it down for the general population, throw in some humor and drama, and any given explaination is probably only right in a big picture sorta way and not the ONLY likely one. Of course given they generally disagree you are usually presented with at least two possible “solutions” Whats that part where they check on a past caller to see how they faired with the persons car problem and what ended up being the solution/problem/resolution? They seem to do okay on that one. And gawd I love their yearly reading of their hate mail 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-should-probably-ask-click-clack/615719/38 "2012-03-15T19:16:06Z")
> [@Penguinlady](#): > > I believe it’s from MIT in automotive engineering, and they also fix cars and know how they work. My point is not to try to compare relative experience, but that so many people seem to think that because they are amusing and on the air, they don’t know anything. BZZZZT! Wrong. According to [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Click_and_clack#Hosts) > [@](#): > > Ray Magliozzi has a bachelor of science degree in humanities and science from MIT, while Tom has a bachelor of science degree in economics from MIT and an MBA and DBA from the Boston University Graduate School of Management. While I hire technicians a degree in Humanities or Economics is not one of my primary criteria.\* I don’t think they don’t know jack shit because they try to be amusing, I am sure they don’t know jack shit, because every time I listen to them, I find them making factual errors about how different systems on cars work. For 15 years I taught design, function, diagnosis and repair of all the various systems in a modern car. - True story, this AM several of us were standing around talking about a former employee. One of my service advisers told me that many years ago he worked at a shop where they hired an honest to God rocket scientist. Degree and everything. He told me that they would give him a ticket, he would read the entire section in the service manual, and still could not fix the car. A degree in one subject does not equal expertise in another field. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-should-probably-ask-click-clack/615719/39 "2012-03-15T19:18:33Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > " > > Whats that part where they check on a past caller to see how they faired with the persons car problem and what ended up being the solution/problem/resolution? They seem to do okay on that one. :rolleyes: Do you really think they are going to put the one they got wrong on the air? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-should-probably-ask-click-clack/615719/40 "2012-03-15T19:35:38Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > :rolleyes: Do you really think they are going to put the one they got wrong on the air? :dubious: Well yeah they could cherry pick it but do you think they actually DO so? And IIRC they ARE wrong sometimes (its been awhile since I’ve listened). They may be many things but they don’t strike me as blatantly dishonest. And besides, don’t they have that segment quite often, so they could only do SO much cherry picking. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-should-probably-ask-click-clack/615719.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-should-probably-ask-click-clack/615719.md?page=3)