# I smell the smelly smell of desperation: Obama not a citizen. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 15, 2008, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002 "2008-10-15T03:23:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![torie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@torie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/torie)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/1 "2008-10-15T03:23:00Z")
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA6\_k3NtXZs#](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA6_k3NtXZs#) \<-----that’s a video. Someone posted this on a right leaning message board I do some posting on. I don’t have speakers on this computer, so I can’t figure out what it says. Something about Obama having Indonesian citizenship. I thought this Obama not a citizen stuff had been debunked and dealt with a long time ago. Why are they bringing it back up now, if not desperation? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/2 "2008-10-15T03:28:36Z")
> [@torie](#): > > I thought this Obama not a citizen stuff had been debunked and dealt with a long time ago. No, [they’re still at it](http://www.obamacrimes.com/). > [@](#): > > It is obvious that Obama was born in Kenya and does not meet the “qualifications” to be President of the United States pursuant to our United States Constitution. Obama cannot produce a certified copy of his “Vault” [original long version] Birth Certificate from Hawaii because it does not exist. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/3 "2008-10-15T03:35:57Z")
In an interesting quirk of history, [some people on the other side of the fence have asked similar questions about McCain this year:](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23415028/) > [@](#): > > Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., and his advisers are doing their best to brush aside questions — raised in the liberal blogosphere — about whether he is qualified under the Constitution to be president. But many legal scholars and government lawyers say it’s a serious question with no clear answer. > > The problem arises from a phrase in the Constitution setting out who is eligible to be president. Article II, which also specifies that a person must be at least 35 years old, says “No person except a natural born Citizen” can be president. > > Sen. McCain is undoubtedly a citizen. He was born on Aug. 29, 1936, in the Panama Canal Zone, and Congress has specifically provided that anyone born there of U.S. parents, as he was, is a citizen. Indeed, the general rule is that anyone born of U.S. parents outside the United States is a citizen. > > But is John McCain a natural born citizen? The Constitution does not define the term further, and legal scholars say the notes of the Constitution’s drafters shed little light on what they meant. It seems clear only that the founders wanted to make certain that whoever was president would be loyal to the U.S. alone and not to some other country. But the term “natural born citizen,” many scholars say, was not in common use at the time the Constitution was written. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/4 "2008-10-15T03:36:47Z")
[QUOTE=nutjob] … pursuant to our United States Constitution. [/QUOTE] Does he think somebody else has a United States Constitution? Like I said before I love the smell of fear and desperation in the morning, it smells like…victory. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/5 "2008-10-15T03:49:50Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > In an interesting quirk of history, [some people on the other side of the fence have asked similar questions about McCain this year:](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23415028/) Yeah, except this fruit-loop isn’t arguing some goofy technicality, he’s claiming Obama outright lied about where he was born. He’s twisting and stretching shit like Reed Richards with constipation. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/6 "2008-10-15T04:19:19Z")
> [@](#): > > I thought this Obama not a citizen stuff had been debunked and dealt with a long time ago. Why are they bringing it back up now, if not desperation? Is the GOP endorsing this, or is the McCain campaign? Has any notable political figure begun pushing this? No? Do you know the difference between the fringe loonies and the mainstream? Or, looked at another way, do you think that all the fringe lefty stuff is fully endorsed by Obama and the Democratic party? -XT ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/7 "2008-10-15T04:23:27Z")
They’ve been beating this particular drum for a while. I’m personally waiting for the “Obama is an Illuminati Lizard Man” meme, because that’s where it looks like this crap is heading. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/8 "2008-10-15T13:01:02Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > In an interesting quirk of history, [some people on the other side of the fence have asked similar questions about McCain this year:](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23415028/) Lamest. Equivalency. Ever. One is a vaguely interesting legal question that is raised and discussed almost exclusively by people who recognize that the question is purely academic, and the other is a bogus and racist assertion of fact intended as a smear of Obama’s Americanness. You can’t see the difference? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/9 "2008-10-15T13:55:58Z")
I don’t think JM is in control of his campaign. Sarah isn’t the asset they hoped for. The economy is in the tank. JM can’t get his message across to the voters, instead, he’s rolling down hill out of control. With everything going against you what’s left to do? Throw poop. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/10 "2008-10-15T14:17:25Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Lamest. Equivalency. Ever. > > One is a vaguely interesting legal question that is raised and discussed almost exclusively by people who recognize that the question is purely academic, and the other is a bogus and racist assertion of fact intended as a smear of Obama’s Americanness. You can’t see the difference? Did I post it as any kind of equivalence? It was just an observation, and it is a fact that these questions, for better or worse, have been asked about both candidates this year. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/11 "2008-10-15T14:35:31Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Did I post it as any kind of equivalence? It was just an observation, and it is a fact that these questions, for better or worse, have been asked about both candidates this year. Ok. No attempted equivalence. Your intention was only to point out an irrelevant piece of trivia. To make your meaning more clear, you might consider not referring to them as “these questions.” In the context of a partisan posting in a political thread in GD, that reads as an attempted equivalence because the questions are only trivially similar. There are so many material differences that putting them into the same category is only analytically useful for someone who wants to construct a false equivalence or point out an odd piece of trivia. Given the choice between the two, a natural assumption is the former. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/12 "2008-10-15T14:41:56Z")
The problem is, **Mr Moto** , that the questions being asked aren’t “similar” at all, as you stated. One question, put to the McCain camp, concerns some tenuous technicality, which obviously can’t be taken seriously. The other question, put to the Obama camp, is basically asking why he is a congenital liar. It’s a “when did you stop beating your wife” conundrum. The questions aren’t similar at all. They only point to a common element. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/13 "2008-10-15T14:57:33Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > He’s twisting and stretching shit like Reed Richards with constipation. Great, now I’m thinking about Mr. Fantastic having a bowel movement. Do you think he just sort of turns himself inside-out? And, do the people pushing the kind of crap linked in the OP really think that they’ve discovered something that was somehow missed by the FEC, thousands of reporters, and the army of lawyers and researchers available to the RNC? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/14 "2008-10-15T14:58:07Z")
[Snopes on Obama’s birth certificate.](http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp) [And on another, even stranger, citizenship-related rumor.](http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp) ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/15 "2008-10-15T15:03:26Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Did I post it as any kind of equivalence? It was just an observation, and it is a fact that these questions, for better or worse, have been asked about both candidates this year. One big difference: the questions about Obama’s citizenship have been all over the place for months. I spend what is probably far too much time in the liberal blogosphere, and your post is honestly the first time I’ve heard the idea that McCain is not a “natural-born citizen”. It’s certainly not something being pushed by the bigger blogs or lefty non-traditional outlets. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/16 "2008-10-15T20:33:07Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > One big difference: the questions about Obama’s citizenship have been all over the place for months. I spend what is probably far too much time in the liberal blogosphere, and your post is honestly the first time I’ve heard the idea that McCain is not a “natural-born citizen”. It’s certainly not something being pushed by the bigger blogs or lefty non-traditional outlets. I posted about this in GQ when I first heard about it, not because I thought the accusation had any validity, but because I was curious about [how citizenship at birth is determined](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=479310). It was the American Independent Party who questioned McCain’s right to run, and as I recall when it did get mentioned it was scoffed at pretty hard by left, right, and center. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/17 "2008-10-15T20:56:13Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Is the GOP endorsing this, or is the McCain campaign? Has any notable political figure begun pushing this? No? > > Do you know the difference between the fringe loonies and the mainstream? Or, looked at another way, do you think that all the fringe lefty stuff is fully endorsed by Obama and the Democratic party? > > -XT Yowza. I’m in agreement with xtisme. This stuff has always been fringe, and I’m sure neither of the campaigns have any interest in pimping it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/18 "2008-10-15T20:59:00Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > In an interesting quirk of history, [some people on the other side of the fence have asked similar questions about McCain this year:](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23415028/) Actually, it was right wingers during the Primaries who raised the question about McCain. It got no traction on the left. Liberals aren’t that insane or stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/19 "2008-10-15T21:01:12Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Did I post it as any kind of equivalence? It was just an observation, and it is a fact that these questions, for better or worse, have been asked about both candidates this year. And they’ve been asked by the exact same wingnuts on the right. McCain’s citizenship has not been an issue even on the fringes of the left. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/20 "2008-10-15T21:39:47Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > One question, put to the McCain camp, concerns some tenuous technicality, which obviously can’t be taken seriously. Oh, I think it should be taken seriously. On the facts as I understand them, McCain is not eligible to be president, and in a perfect world he wouldn’t be on the ballot. But he’s not going to be president, so it’s not really worth sweating. And the natural-born citizen requirement is stupid and should be gotten rid of anyway. It would personally give me indigestion if I were planning to vote for the guy and I had to cast a ballot for someone I believed ineligible, but again, that’s not going to happen. But I don’t think it’s a technicality or it can’t be taken seriously – McCain’s presence on the ballot is an offense to the Constitution as I understand it. But I’ve gotten sadly acclimated to offenses to the Constitution over the last several years. –Cliffy [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002.md?page=2)