# I smell the smelly smell of desperation: Obama not a citizen. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 15, 2008, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002 "2008-10-15T03:23:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/121 "2008-10-30T19:39:36Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > That’s not his birth certificate. :rolleyes: [Yes, it is.](http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp) And [here’s](http://www.wikileaks.org/leak/obama-1961-birth-announcement-from-honolulu-advertiser.pdf) his birth announcement in the _Honolulu Advertiser_ (bottom LH corner of page). ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/122 "2008-10-30T19:53:23Z")
[quote=“BrainGlutton, post:121, topic:468002”] :rolleyes: [Yes, it is.](http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp) No, it’s not. It’s something posted on the internet. The Governor has sealed the document in question until 1 day after the election. The guy challenging this in court has some convoluted case that it is a fake document. My eyes glazed over reading about it and I don’t think there is anything to it. However, as I stated before, this makes it look bad for Obama. It’s not like it would matter if the guy proved it the next day upon release. The next President doesn’t take office until next year. Sealing the records until Nov 5th was a stupid thing for the Governor to do. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/123 "2008-10-30T19:53:44Z")
See also [here](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/13/obamas-birth-certificate/) and [here](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/124 "2008-10-30T19:54:51Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The Governor has sealed the document in question until 1 day after the election. Cite? 'Cause I keep seeing variations of the above floating around the Internets, but I can never seem to trace it back to any source more credible than WorldNetDaily or [Jerome Corsi](http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080901/blumenthal) or some shit. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/125 "2008-10-30T20:00:09Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The Governor of Hawai sealed Obama’s birth cirtificate until after the election?[sic] Got anything like a cite for this, Sparky? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/126 "2008-10-30T20:04:56Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The Governor has sealed the document in question until 1 day after the election. 😕 Do you have a cite for this claim that isn’t just an unsupported allegation to that effect by well-known anti-Obama right-wing author Jerome Corsi? I have seen reposts of Corsi’s article all over the place, but I haven’t been able to find any independent confirmation that any kind of “sealing” process took place on Obama’s birth certificate. As far as I can tell, the document is simply being withheld from outside investigators in accordance with standard confidentiality policies, which permit only the individual in question or close family members to get copies of a birth certificate. That’s how it operates in most states AFAIK, not just Hawaii. ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/127 "2008-10-30T20:05:18Z")
We’re talking about Republican governor Linda Lingle, who gave Sarah Palin a tongue bath at the RNC here? Dang, that Obama is _good_. FYI this page details who can request a copy of the BC: [http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06\_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS\_0338-0018.htm](http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0018.htm) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/128 "2008-10-30T20:16:53Z")
And [here](http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html) you can see Obama’s BC with clear pix of that “raised seal” of which the wingnuts keep screaming about the purported absence. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/129 "2008-10-30T20:23:26Z")
I think the nuts are asking for a copy of the _original_ birth certificate - the one filled out back in 1961. The one that’s pictured on the Internet is a document created eleven years ago. However, I think most people don’t have their original, and when they need a copy for some official purpose, the county clerk generates another piece of paper instead of copying the old original. All I had was a newer form, until a couple of months ago when my dad died, we found my old originally-issued one in his belongings. Mine is also from 1961, BTW. ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/130 "2008-10-30T20:26:59Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And [here](http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html) you can see Obama’s BC with clear pix of that “raised seal” of which the wingnuts keep screaming about the purported absence. Nope, can’t fool me. That’s **a** raised seal, but it’s not **the** raised seal. ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/131 "2008-10-30T20:30:51Z")
So is Magiver coming back to the thread? Is the [factcheck.org](http://factcheck.org) post not proof enough for you? ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/132 "2008-10-30T20:43:03Z")
[quote=“Magiver, post:122, topic:468002”] > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :rolleyes: [Yes, it is.](http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp) > No, it’s not. It’s something posted on the internet. The Governor has sealed the document in question until 1 day after the election. The guy challenging this in court has some convoluted case that it is a fake document. My eyes glazed over reading about it and I don’t think there is anything to it. However, as I stated before, this makes it look bad for Obama. > > It’s not like it would matter if the guy proved it the next day upon release. The next President doesn’t take office until next year. Sealing the records until Nov 5th was a stupid thing for the Governor to do. There’s nothing to seal. Hawaii law says birth certificates are not public record and can only be requested by an interested party. Interested parties are defined on [this page](http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/elig_vrcc.html) from the Hawaii Department of Health website. I did a search for Obama birth certificate sealed and the only sites that mention it are blogs and far right sources like WorldNetDaily. No legitimate news source came up. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/133 "2008-10-30T20:45:50Z")
[quote=“Magiver, post:122, topic:468002”] > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :rolleyes: [Yes, it is.](http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp) > No, it’s not. Yes it is. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/134 "2008-10-30T20:50:38Z")
The “certificate of live birth” is exactly what I was given for all my kids. I know the wingnuts try to scream that it’s not the same as a birth certificate, but it is. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/135 "2008-10-30T21:06:01Z")
“Natural born” clearly means that candidates who were born by C-section are inelgible. Vaginal deliveries only!! ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/136 "2008-10-30T21:12:38Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The “certificate of live birth” is exactly what I was given for all my kids. I know the wingnuts try to scream that it’s not the same as a birth certificate, but it is. But “Certificate of Live Birth” is clearly NOT the same as “birth certificate.” One has two words, one has four words. How can they possibly be the same? Are you SERIOUSLY trying to say that 2 is the same as 4?!!!?! :dubious::dubious::dubious::dubious: parody, for the whoosh-inclined ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/137 "2008-10-30T21:12:59Z")
Absent a citation from **Magiver** that confirms his theory that “The Governor of Hawai sealed Obama’s birth cirtificate until after the election”, can we now consider this statement to be inoperative? Can I further request that **Magiver** stop saying it? And can he also stop using the phrase “no it isn’t” as if it is a penetrating argument? I feel like I’m in a Monty Python sketch. I mean, it really does become comical: **Poster 1** : Here is a link to a site with photographs, and documented evidence that pretty much conclusively says that Obama’s birth certificate as pictured is the real, authentic deal. **Magiver** : No it isn’t ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/138 "2008-10-30T21:12:59Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Yes it is. Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/139 "2008-10-30T21:13:38Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > “Natural born” clearly means that candidates who were born by C-section are inelgible. Vaginal deliveries only!! Lay on, MacDuff! And damn’d be he that first cries, “Hold! Enough!” ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/140 "2008-10-30T21:14:05Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes! No it isn’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002.md?page=8)