# I smell the smelly smell of desperation: Obama not a citizen. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 15, 2008, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002 "2008-10-15T03:23:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/141 "2008-10-30T21:15:54Z")
[quote=“Diogenes\_the\_Cynic, post:133, topic:468002”] > [@Magiver](#): > > Yes it is. No, it isn’t. It’s an internet post and I’m not arguing that it’s false. I don’t believe the guy who say’s it is. See my post above. For the Obama supporters, do you not understand that I’m on your side on this issue? Instead of releasing the document for public review it fuels a conspiracy. Better to answer a single question then let it get spun into a conspiracy. And for the record, I found the reference at a Philly newspaper that referenced Worldnet so it doesn’t give the story much traction. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/142 "2008-10-30T21:18:40Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > > [@CurtC](#): > > > > Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes! > > No it isn’t. Yes it is! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/143 "2008-10-30T21:18:58Z")
[quote=“Magiver, post:141, topic:468002”] > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No, it isn’t. It’s an internet post and I’m not arguing that it’s false. I don’t believe the guy who say’s it is. See my post above. > > For the Obama supporters, do you not understand that I’m on your side on this issue? Instead of releasing the document for public review it fuels a conspiracy. Better to answer a single question then let it get spun into a conspiracy. And for the record, I found the reference at a Philly newspaper that referenced Worldnet so it doesn’t give the story much traction. What do you mean “instead of”? The document in question has been released for public review by every means Hawaii law will allow. Several independent journalists have investigated it, held it in their hands, photographed it from several angles and published the photographs. The governor of Hawaii has **not** “sealed the record”. This has all been covered over and over in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/144 "2008-10-30T21:23:04Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > Yes it is! Look, if I’m going to argue with you, I must take up a contrary position! ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/145 "2008-10-30T21:25:55Z")
[quote=“BrainGlutton, post:143, topic:468002”] > [@Magiver](#): > > The governor of Hawaii has **not** “sealed the record”. This has all been covered over and over in this thread. Perhaps **Magiver** would like you to PROVE that the governer of Hawaii has not sealed the record, and in return **Magiver** will PROVE to our satisfaction that he is not an alien from the moons of Mordor. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/146 "2008-10-30T21:26:30Z")
[quote=“BrainGlutton, post:143, topic:468002”] > [@Magiver](#): > > What do you mean “instead of”? The document in question has been released for public review by every means Hawaii law will allow. Several independent journalists have investigated it, held it in their hands, photographed it from several angles and published the photographs. The governor of Hawaii has **not** “sealed the record”. This has all been covered over and over in this thread. It has not been released to the person bringing the court case. I’m not sure what you don’t understand here. I"M NOT ARGUEING THE VALIDITY OF THE CLAIM. I THINK IT’S FALSE. However, it makes the email circuit on a routine basis and it’s easily stopped. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/147 "2008-10-30T21:29:04Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > For the Obama supporters, do you not understand that I’m on your side on this issue? Instead of releasing the document for public review it fuels a conspiracy. Better to answer a single question then let it get spun into a conspiracy. Yes, we understand that you don’t doubt the validity of Obama’s birth certificate. And we all agree that a scanned JPEG image of a certified copy of a birth certificate on a website is not the same thing as the actual physical certified document. What we’re taking issue with is your claim that the Governor of Hawaii has somehow “sealed” Obama’s birth certificate “until November 5”. Yes, we saw the Jerome Corsi article that made that allegation, but there appears to be no actual evidence for it. As far as I can tell, there’s no mysterious “sealing” process involved at all. It’s just that access to Obama’s birth certificate, like access to anybody else’s birth certificate, is automatically restricted to people who are legally entitled to request it. That includes the individual himself, close family members, and a few other categories of persons as described in links provided by other posters. It doesn’t include Jerome Corsi, you, me, or any other moke on the intarwebs who decides that s/he wants to look at the real Obama birth certificate. So what we’re asking you for is a valid cite—something other than the widely-referenced unsupported allegations by Corsi—to support the claim that Governor Lingle has indeed “sealed” Obama’s birth certificate in any way other than simply enforcing the usual legal restrictions on access to it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/148 "2008-10-30T21:29:53Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It has not been released to the person bringing the court case. Of course not, nor should it have been. That lawsuit [was dismissed for lack of standing](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/25/AR2008102501237.html) before it reached the discovery phase. > [@Magiver](#): > > I’m not sure what you don’t understand here. I"M NOT ARGUEING THE VALIDITY OF THE CLAIM. I THINK IT’S FALSE. However, it makes the email circuit on a routine basis and it’s easily stopped. And I’m telling you, there is absolutely no more Obama legally **can** do than he has already done, to release the birth certificate and stop the rumors. If you were pressed to provide your birth certificate, you could do no more than Obama has done. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/149 "2008-10-30T21:29:57Z")
If you engage the consipacy theorists then you have lost. \The only winning move is not to play.\ ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/150 "2008-10-30T21:32:58Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It has not been released to the person bringing the court case. That’s apparently because the person bringing the court case does not fall into any of the legally specified categories of persons who are allowed access to another individual’s birth certificate. This is not anything special, secret, mysterious, or unusual in any way. Have you yourself ever applied for a copy of your own birth certificate? I had to get mine when I was temporarily moving to the Netherlands, and I can attest that New Jersey is just as hardass about not letting random non-related individuals get access to that document as Hawaii is. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/151 "2008-10-30T21:33:00Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’m not sure what you don’t understand here. I"M NOT ARGUEING THE VALIDITY OF THE CLAIM. I THINK IT’S FALSE. However, it makes the email circuit on a routine basis and it’s easily stopped. How is it easily stopped? By releasing a scanned image of the birth certificate? By letting independent third parties inspect it? That’s what Obama’s already done! If you’re saying that Obama should hand it over to that crackpot Berg, what more would that accomplish? ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/152 "2008-10-30T21:37:59Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > If you’re saying that Obama should hand it over to that crackpot Berg, what more would that accomplish? He would eat it then declare it a fake and blame Obama for destroying it… ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/153 "2008-10-30T21:41:33Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > How is it easily stopped? By releasing a scanned image of the birth certificate? By letting independent third parties inspect it? That’s what Obama’s already done! > > If you’re saying that Obama should hand it over to that crackpot Berg, what more would that accomplish? Berg is making a case that images don’t match up (I think). My eyes glazed over when I read it. But yes, since it has a court date it would be great if the Judge pulled the document and reviewed it with Berg and Obama’s people. He could shut this guy up in chambers and make him eat crow publicly without a trial. Berg is a lawyer and this would burn his future to the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/154 "2008-10-30T21:46:54Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > But yes, since it has a court date it would be great if the Judge pulled the document and reviewed it with Berg and Obama’s people. Once again: What makes you think that _ **either the judge in the case or Berg is LEGALLY ENTITLED to have access to Obama’s birth certificate?** _ Have you read **any** of the posts or links explaining that not just any random individual, **not even members of the judiciary** , is necessarily entitled to obtain a certified copy of another individual’s official birth certificate? ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/155 "2008-10-30T21:50:55Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Berg is making a case that images don’t match up (I think). My eyes glazed over when I read it. But yes, since it has a court date it would be great if the Judge pulled the document and reviewed it with Berg and Obama’s people. The court case is over. It was dismissed. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/156 "2008-10-30T21:56:49Z")
And I think \*\*Magiver \*\*is underestimating this Corsi guy’s staying power. His “career” is just fine. Hell, he’ll have 8 years (if the goat sacrifice proves successful) to hump every stripe of conspiracy theory related book / lawsuit he wants against Obama. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/157 "2008-10-30T21:58:51Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > And I think \*\*Magiver \*\*is underestimating this Corsi guy’s staying power. His “career” is just fine. Hell, he’ll have 8 years (if the goat sacrifice proves successful) to hump every stripe of conspiracy theory related book / lawsuit he wants against Obama. He was referring to Berg, not Corsi. Philip Berg is a Philadelphia lawyer and an embittered Hillary supporter. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/158 "2008-10-30T22:01:19Z")
What’s the difference? ETA: Yeah, I mixed up my names, I was referring to Berg, but the same could be said of Corsi. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/159 "2008-10-30T22:16:40Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > it’s easily stopped. No it isn’t ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002/160 "2008-10-31T00:16:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Magiver > The Governor of Hawai sealed Obama’s birth cirtificate until after the election?[sic] > [@askeptic](#): > > Got anything like a cite for this, Sparky? Still waiting, Sparky… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-smell-the-smelly-smell-of-desperation-obama-not-a-citizen/468002.md?page=9)