# I solved the gun control problem. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 20, 2018, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181 "2018-02-20T08:05:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/61 "2018-02-20T17:45:32Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I do. In this world there are only 2 words, when spoken together, that have instilled more fear in a mans heart than “I do.” The other two are “I’m late.” Please be more careful. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/62 "2018-02-20T17:46:23Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I do. What’s a good number? And from where do you derive it? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/63 "2018-02-20T17:57:14Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > There’s more of an overlap between “gun owners” and police / military than you seem to recognize. You think a retired cop or Marine would relish the idea of squaring off against an active LEO or military detachment? Seems to me, they’re the ones who would think better of it, knowing first hand what well trained active duty servicemen and women under command are capable of. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I do. Red Dawn was just a movie. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/64 "2018-02-20T17:57:27Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > What’s a good number? And from where do you derive it? I doubt anyone has a good number on the subject. The topic doesn’t exactly lend itself to frank responses on surveys. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/65 "2018-02-20T17:58:41Z")
That’s what I thought. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/66 "2018-02-20T17:58:50Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > … You think a retired cop or Marine would relish the idea of squaring off against an active LEO or military detachment? … I doubt anyone would “relish” it, but I’m not just talking about retired folks. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/67 "2018-02-20T18:02:10Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I doubt anyone would “relish” it, but I’m not just talking about retired folks. If it comes to that, then we’re talking about Martial law if not actual civil war. 2nd Amendment rights are going to be irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/68 "2018-02-20T18:06:19Z")
> [@AgingLiberalD](#): > > **I solved the gun control problem.** There are plenty of solutions to the gun control problem that would work **if** there were sufficient political support to implement them. ‘If.’ Such a tiny word, yet so easy to trip over. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/69 "2018-02-20T18:09:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **XT** : > > I think you mean that pro-gun types ’ like to pretend that that clause doesn’t exist, and because so many of them pretend that’, yes? Not getting into whether you are right or not, but as written it doesn’t really make much sense. Yes, that’s what I said. To be clear, I use the term “gun grabbers” to mean “people who grab guns”. I have no idea how it came to mean “people who don’t grab guns” in so many peoples’ minds. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/70 "2018-02-20T18:10:15Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > In the context of militia armaments. Correct. The right of the people to keep and bear arms is guaranteed, because any infringement of the right of the people interferes with the ability to have a well-regulated militia. > [@](#): > > Odd how someone can insist on a narrow interpretation of rights and freedoms on some issues, and an expansive one on others, isn’t it? How do you manage that? I don’t see how I am the one doing that. The RtKaBA is expansive, not narrow - the FF thought you couldn’t have a militia without it, and therefore it cannot be infringed. > [@](#): > > Since they very shortly abandoned the idea and established a standing army anyway, that’s moot. Then, again, you need to amend the Constitution. Or perhaps your understanding of what constitutes a well-regulated militia is different from what the FF thought. > [@](#): > > That’s what the law \*was \*established by the Supremes to be for many years, until there got to be 5 ideologues on the bench to change it and somehow find a right to personal self-defense in there. You’ve got the same problem as usual - on what basis can you argue that Heller was wrong and previous Supreme Court decisions were right? Just saying “they are ideologues” doesn’t do that. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/71 "2018-02-20T18:14:57Z")
So if there’s a home invader in my house or a guy about to mug me, I’m supposed to ask them if they’ll please hold off until I can go check out a firearm from the armory? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/72 "2018-02-20T18:24:30Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yes, that’s what I said. To be clear, I use the term “gun grabbers” to mean “people who grab guns”. I have no idea how it came to mean “people who don’t grab guns” in so many peoples’ minds. Assuming this really is a mystery to you, the more common usage is to denote “people who want to take away (‘grab’) guns from their owners”, similar to the same way that “purse-snatcher” refers to the thief and not the woman who might try to clutch her purse as a thief rips it out of her hands. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/73 "2018-02-20T18:25:41Z")
> [@Mdcastle](#): > > So if there’s a home invader in my house or a guy about to mug me, I’m supposed to ask them if they’ll please hold off until I can go check out a firearm from the armory? I suppose you keep a team of your own personal first responders and medical doctors, in case of a fire or heart attack. I mean, just to be safe and ready for any emergency situation. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/74 "2018-02-20T18:34:32Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Correct. The right of the people to keep and bear arms is guaranteed, because any infringement of the right of the people interferes with the ability to have a well-regulated militia. The right of the people, as represented by their duly-established armed forces, to have weapons for the purposes of those armed forces is guaranteed. Glad we agree. > [@](#): > > I don’t see how I am the one doing that. The RtKaBA is expansive, not narrow That’s \*exactly \*how you’re doing it. > [@](#): > > Then, again, you need to amend the Constitution. Sure. I would be very happy to repeal the Second Amendment. It would take away all of the most popular excuses and rationalizations, like yours, and leave us a better, safer, more decent society. Tell us, what arguments would you use instead if it was gone? > [@](#): > > on what basis can you argue that Heller was wrong and previous Supreme Court decisions were right? The fact that the rationale for Heller was invented, not found in the Constitution. That was already pointed out in my previous response. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/75 "2018-02-20T18:58:55Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Assuming this really is a mystery to you, the more common usage is to denote “people who want to take away (‘grab’) guns from their owners”, similar to the same way that “purse-snatcher” refers to the thief and not the woman who might try to clutch her purse as a thief rips it out of her hands. I call bullshit on that. The way y’all use ‘gun grabber,’ it’s the equivalent of calling someone a ‘purse snatcher’ for advocating that future sales of paisley purses should be banned. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/76 "2018-02-20T19:08:51Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I call bullshit on that. The way y’all use ‘gun grabber,’ it’s the equivalent of calling someone a ‘purse snatcher’ for advocating that future sales of paisley purses should be banned. But that’s one of the reasons I’ve come around to outlawing weapons of mass slaughter - not just sale, but possession as well. Because if the gun-worshippers are going to call us ‘gun grabbers’ for advocating background checks for sales at gun shows, what’s the point of bothering to try to find any middle ground? If we’re gonna be called ‘gun grabbers’ no matter what, then fuck it, let’s grab the guns. What are you folks going to say about us now? That we’re gun grabbers? Go ahead, knock yourselves out! We won’t notice the difference, because you’ve been calling us that all along. ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/77 "2018-02-20T19:09:14Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I suppose you keep a team of your own personal first responders and medical doctors, in case of a fire or heart attack. I mean, just to be safe and ready for any emergency situation. No. I can’t pay for a doctor to keep on standby. A firearm by contrast is easily affordable. Also a fire or medical emergency is unlikely to kill me as fast as a mugger or home invader so waiting for emergency response is more reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/78 "2018-02-20T19:10:01Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I call bullshit on that. The way y’all use ‘gun grabber,’ it’s the equivalent of calling someone a ‘purse snatcher’ for advocating that future sales of paisley purses should be banned. I don’t care. It’s going to continue to get used to describe supporters of various gun control schemes with far greater frequency than Chronos’ bass-ackwards usage regardless of your personal feelings on the matter. If it makes you feel any better, I generally try to reserve usage of the term for people who really are advocating taking guns away, not just infringing on future transactions. ETA: which apparently accurately describes you ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/79 "2018-02-20T19:10:03Z")
The only people I know of who want to snatch guns away from their owners are criminals who break into peoples’ houses to steal guns. And they’re pro-gun, too, because it means there’s something in houses of value that they can steal. ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/80 "2018-02-20T19:13:48Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > But that’s one of the reasons I’ve come around to outlawing weapons of mass slaughter - not just sale, but possession as well. > > Because if the gun-worshippers are going to call us ‘gun grabbers’ for advocating background checks for sales at gun shows, what’s the point of bothering to try to find any middle ground? If we’re gonna be called ‘gun grabbers’ no matter what, then fuck it, let’s grab the guns. What are you folks going to say about us now? That we’re gun grabbers? Go ahead, knock yourselves out! We won’t notice the difference, because you’ve been calling us that all along. Because we already tried to find middle ground by exempting people that are not in the business of selling firearms from having to do background checks in exchange for requiring them from dealers. Any “middle ground” immediately gets thrown back into our face as a “loophole” that needs to be closed. With that kind of bad faith how are we going to trust that the next "reasonable restriction is going to be the end of it and that there won’t be no end to the cycle until we’re all defenseless. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181.md?page=5)