# I solved the gun control problem. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 20, 2018, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181 "2018-02-20T08:05:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/121 "2018-02-20T22:42:59Z")
> [@AgingLiberalD](#): > > Do you disagree that it would benefit the public to provide those who want access to guns with adequate mental health care? … I imagine that providing everyone - not just those who want access to guns - with adequate mental health care would benefit the public. But that’s far cry from what you’re proposing. You’re not suggesting that we just _offer_ it and help whatever walk-ins we get, your proposal is to make it a _mandatory_ condition for gun ownership. That’s the part I object to. Do you really not understand that or are you just trying to play coy? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/122 "2018-02-20T23:10:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Mdcastle** : > > Because we already tried to find middle ground by exempting people that are not in the business of selling firearms from having to do background checks in exchange for requiring them from dealers. Any “middle ground” immediately gets thrown back into our face as a “loophole” that needs to be closed. That’s not a middle ground. Do you know who originally proposed universal background checks? The NRA. There’s no reason they shouldn’t be required of everyone selling guns, not just the people who describe themselves as being in the business. The usual objection is “But what about Granpa passing down his hunting rifle to his grandkid?”. If he wants to give the kid his rifle, fine. Why would he be selling it? > [@](#): > > Quoth **The Other Waldo Pepper** : > > But, of course, that’s not how it was written. Why do you think that is? Because the Founding Fathers were a bunch of amateurs who had no idea how to write a Constitution. To be fair, there weren’t a lot of precedents to learn from at the time, but the end result is still that they did a pretty poor job. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/123 "2018-02-21T00:32:14Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Because the Founding Fathers were a bunch of amateurs who had no idea how to write a Constitution. To be fair, there weren’t a lot of precedents to learn from at the time, but the end result is still that they did a pretty poor job. And they were written by committees who had different agendas, many that revolved around slavery. The reason the 2nd is such a mess is that the original draft by Madison was then picked apart by a committee who made a series of changes that rendered the thing nearly incomprehensible, especially to anyone who is just reading the thing without the historical context or having read things like the Federalist Papers to give it some context. ---
**Author:** ![AgingLiberalD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2bfe46/32.png) [@AgingLiberalD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AgingLiberalD)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/124 "2018-02-21T05:15:56Z")
> [@XT](#): > > You left out the part where " the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"…you seem to be advocating in your solution a pretty heavy infringement. > > So it’s most likely a win-win for your side > > Existing guns (all 360+ million of them) will still be out on the streets? I seriously doubt more than 10% would be donated, unless that’s a subtle way of saying you plan to do similar things to your clubs to encourage people to ‘donate’. I see you’ve put the hooks in with ‘could also establish reasonable limits for gun possession, preventing citizens from attempting to skirt regulation and operate illegal armories as personal firearms are phased out’, so I’ll assume that’s part of the plan. > > I know you put a lot of thought into this Its been a while since I red the full amendment, but as far as I am aware, there is nothing that says where the people are allowed to keep them and when they’re allowed to bear them. The idea is that it could be a win for everybody. Weapons are available to everyone who is willing to prove they are capable and committed to safe and responsible gun use. I doubt anybody rational would think the government is coming to get their guns. I specifically stated the plan would take decades, and the plan isn’t to round up all the guns, but rather to phase out private ownership in favor of communal ownership. I wouldn’t say it took a lot if thought. Took me maybe half an hour to type the OP, which I wasn’t in a hurry to complete, and I got the idea for a well regulated militia directly from the 2nd amendment. ---
**Author:** ![AgingLiberalD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2bfe46/32.png) [@AgingLiberalD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AgingLiberalD)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/125 "2018-02-21T05:18:48Z")
> [@somepumpkin](#): > > Who’s gonna pay for it? It seems logical to have the armories pay for themselves. Different armories could use different business models, and the market would go with the best model. ---
**Author:** ![AgingLiberalD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2bfe46/32.png) [@AgingLiberalD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AgingLiberalD)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/126 "2018-02-21T05:23:45Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > Dude, you joined the board to post this crap? This is a left-leaning (by US measures) board where your (and my) lefty politics will find plenty of friendly support, but your solution is laughably one-sided and decidedly unclever. I dont feel its one sided, i feel like it is the best solution for society, disregarding partisan politics altogether. Despite my username and fairly liberal attitude, I feel like an effective idea is an effective idea, regardless of which ideology is more passionate about it. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/127 "2018-02-21T05:32:38Z")
> [@AgingLiberalD](#): > > … I doubt anybody rational would think the government is coming to get their guns. Yeah, I can’t imagine where they’d get that idea. > [@AgingLiberalD](#): > > … the plan isn’t to round up all the guns, but rather to phase out private ownership in favor of communal ownership. … Ahhhh, now I see. ---
**Author:** ![AgingLiberalD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2bfe46/32.png) [@AgingLiberalD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AgingLiberalD)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/128 "2018-02-21T05:39:36Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > If all existing guns are “grandfathered in” then we’re still going to have a massive, MASSIVE amount of guns out there. There are more guns in america, then there are Americans. > > And, c’mon, "regular therapy?’ Many, many mentally ill people, especially on medication, KNOW what “normal” looks like, because they observe it every day, even if they aren’t, and can fake it to some therapist. I have little doubt Paddock would have passed this test. > > This does nothing, practically nothing, to stop some guy from doing a checkout and shooting up a school. > Then, perhaps allow for bolt action rifle sales, small capacity pump shotguns, and that’s it. Yes, but over time the amount of guns will diminish. It could take 300 years before the program is fully implemented, but 300 years from now Americans could have a very different outlook on firearms, and I believe this plan will help change that outlook in a positive way The therapy isn’t intended to prevent gun violence by catching the crazies before they shoot someone. Sure, some people may be denied the right to use the weapon outside of the armory based on the therapist’s recommendation, but the main point is to encourage people to talk about their feelings with someone trained to listen. I believe this would help lower the instances of people grabbing a gun in an emotion fueled frenzy and shooting someone. This does quite a lot actually. Ammunition would be strictly controlled off premesis, which can limit the amount of victims in an eventual case. The aforementioned therapy can help to prevent people from coming to a murderous solution altogether (see my future post to shodan for cites). By the time guns aren’t freely available, people may even have a different outlook on firearms use and possession, further lowering instances. If someone is fantasizing about mass murder or suicide, just the smallest speedbump in the process can cause the person to think about what they’re doing and decide that the reality if their fantasy is not worth the trouble and just stick with the fantasy. I agree that rifles and shotguns should be more obtainable than handguns and automatic weapons, especially the farther from civilization you are. ---
**Author:** ![AgingLiberalD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2bfe46/32.png) [@AgingLiberalD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AgingLiberalD)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/129 "2018-02-21T05:49:33Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Many (though not all) of the pro-gunners are motivated by fear of governmental tyranny. The idea of giving control of all the nation’s guns to one powerful entity is naturally going to alarm them, and perhaps some of the rest of us. The idea isn’t necessarily to put one entity in charge, but rather to have the federal government establish reasonable guidelines and then have the state government and local communities establish regulations that are voted on by the people in the community. Only local militia members will be allowed to remove firearms from the armories to prevent people from travelling to an area with more relaxed gun laws to obtain a firearm for the purposes of committing a crime elsewhere. Finally, the armories themselves are allowed to operate under a regulated free market, with auditing to make sure they are following the guidelines. Auditing can be done by both governmental and private entities. ---
**Author:** ![AgingLiberalD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2bfe46/32.png) [@AgingLiberalD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AgingLiberalD)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/130 "2018-02-21T06:16:25Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > If they stopped ‘all’ gun manufacturing today, it would be several decades before there would any kind of shortage. > > All solutions must target the ‘problem’ gun owner. I don’t know how they will determine this, but that can be the only solution. That’s the idea. Several decades for public opinion to gradually shift. And the problem is identifying which gun owners are problematic. It seems like the Las Vegas shooter was a legal gun owner right up until the day that he wasn’t. I mean, I like guns. I think they’re fun and useful for shootin and killin. I think everybody should be allowed the chance to use them. However I also believe that my right to not be shot is more important than the right for any barely trained adult to carry a personal firearm at all times. (I understand the constitution doesn’t make this distinction. It is a personal opinion.) I feel like if the pro-gun crowd would be open to a solution other than letting the gun problem sort itself out, they would see that this plan stands to change our attitude on firearm use, and allow more Americans access to a greater variety of firearms in a controlled setting. In the unlikely event of a foreign or domestic government takeover, all members of the militia would rally at the armory to put their training to use. ---
**Author:** ![AgingLiberalD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2bfe46/32.png) [@AgingLiberalD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AgingLiberalD)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/131 "2018-02-21T06:19:11Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > How many tanks, jets, bombs, and missiles does “your side” have? Better get cracking. > > Besides, \*what \*resistance? If you all really are “law-abiding citizens” like we keep hearing, you’ll abide by the law, won’t you? Or is that term somewhat selective? Everyone is a law abiding citizen up until the moment they’re not. ---
**Author:** ![AgingLiberalD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2bfe46/32.png) [@AgingLiberalD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AgingLiberalD)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/132 "2018-02-21T06:29:46Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think MEBuckner made a valid point. Your proposal is essentially that your position be enacted into law. Lots of people would like to see the same principle applied to things they believe in. MEBuckner pointed out how the same principle you’re using on gun control would look if it was applied to the issue of abortions. My proposal is that the best solution is for strict regulations that combat a number of factors that I believe lead to gun violence. Any law is essentially a position or multiple positions intended to be enforced. I think the only difference is that people will refuse to agree with this position based on ideology and a fear of being vulnerable, rather than how it would benefit of harm society. And its not like i ever said “this is the way it will be and there shall be no compromise.” I just listed a quick outline of how the idea could benefit both sides of the debate, even though many who disagree with me will overlook the net benefits in favor of focusing solely on the effects they feel are negative. ---
**Author:** ![AgingLiberalD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2bfe46/32.png) [@AgingLiberalD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AgingLiberalD)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/133 "2018-02-21T06:33:12Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Don’t forget the massive re-structuring of the various DFW’s … if there’s no guns about who will go and shoot all the extra deer? … Deer hunters? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/134 "2018-02-21T06:40:14Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Don’t forget the massive re-structuring of the various DFW’s … if there’s no guns about who will go and shoot all the extra deer? … Ted Nugent. ---
**Author:** ![AgingLiberalD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2bfe46/32.png) [@AgingLiberalD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AgingLiberalD)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/135 "2018-02-21T06:57:35Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > “but the whack jobs on both sides prevent the vast middle from even coming together to discuss it.” > > Training, registration, limits on types of weapons … perfectly sensible and in no way impedes our right to own a gun … THEN let the local jurisdictions decide further regulations, my experiences with guns in this 1,000 sq miles of forest is different from someone living in Orange County, CA … Can somebody show me examples of some left leaning whackjobs regarding gun control? I can’t think of any, however I’m sure dems must have made some wild claims and have tried to pass laws gun rights people would classify as gun-grabbing. I agree with you about sensible gun control. I currently vote in favor of such policies. Up until late last year I believed only handgun possession, or at least concealed carry should be restricted, while hunting weapons should be available in areas with a certain population density( meaning rifles are available in more remote areas, and shotguns available anywhere slightly rural.). Now I believe that it would be better for society if we strictly limit possession of all weapons, while still allowing the public to operate a local militia and (relatively) freely use guns for legal purposes. (Regardless of what current laws allow, this is my submission for the solution with the greatest net benefit for society. Many people are saying this would never happen, which I agree with. That has nothing to do with whether or not this is a good idea that allows both sides of the debate to benefit.) ---
**Author:** ![AgingLiberalD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2bfe46/32.png) [@AgingLiberalD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AgingLiberalD)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/136 "2018-02-21T07:20:28Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Likely to receive strong resistance from people who are concerned about government. Particularly government confiscation of firearms. > > Does not solve the problem of how to get 300 million firearms collected, categorized and stored in these armories. > > See previous comments on “government”. > > I was going to comment on the rest, but it’s generally more of the same theme. > > Also doesn’t address the issue of using guns for home defense. I don’t want to drive to the armory every time I think I’m going to get robbed. > > The fundamental problem of gun control is that the country can’t reach a consensus on what level of “control” is appropriate. Not that we don’t understand the mechanism for securing objects in a vault and having authorized people sign them out. The federal, state, and local governments would just provide the regulations, and could assist with enforcement unless anybody has a better solution on how to enforce the regulations. The firearms don’t need to be collected, they can be voluntarily stored by the militia members, or purchased by the armory. If a citizen wants to purchase a private firearm that isn’t grandfathered in, they could do so through the armory. Depending on the weapon, they would be able to check it out freely for legal reasons. If you already have guns, you would still have them for home defense. Part if the appeal to gun enthusiasts should be the fact that the only real effect on them would be slightly stricter regulations on new firearms only. It makes it slightly more difficult to purchase a new firearm, and impossible to keep that new firearm for home defense. It stands to reason that if such a law were going to be passed, people would have ample time to purchase plenty of firearms for home defense if they believe it to be necessary. A federal limit on the amount or type of firearms isn’t necessary to the plans effectiveness, it would just help to ensure that the amount of firearms on the street goes down more quickly and our cultural views on keeping firearms in our homes change at a faster rate. And I don’t think the problem is that we can’t agree on reasonable controls, I think the problem is that a lot of money is spent trying to convince people that any sort of government control or regulation is bad when regarding guns. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/137 "2018-02-21T07:20:46Z")
> [@AgingLiberalD](#): > > Can somebody show me examples of some left leaning whackjobs regarding gun control? I can’t think of any, however I’m sure dems must have made some wild claims and have tried to pass laws gun rights people would classify as gun-grabbing. … Just re-read your OP. Your proposal there would get called “gun-grabbing” by a lot of people. Or you could read the [NYT - To Repeat: Repeal the Second Amendment](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/16/opinion/repeat-repeal-second-amendment.html) or posts by various other Dopers. [Here is an excerpt from the Boston Globe (in an article titled, I note, “Hand over your weapons”)](https://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2017/11/10/hand-over-your-weapons/6IxJLanMKGak7RvCLipwbN/story.html) from a few months ago: > [@](#): > > At a New Hampshire forum in the fall of 2015, Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton spoke approvingly of an Australian gun buyback program that collected more than 650,000 weapons — a buyback that, she neglected to mention, was compulsory. > > And just a few months earlier, then-President Barack Obama offered coded support for the same confiscatory approach. “When Australia had a mass killing — I think it was in Tasmania — about 25 years ago, it was just so shocking, the entire country said, ‘Well, we’re going to completely change our gun laws,’ and they did,” he said. > > Democrats have even let the word “confiscation” slip out, on occasion. After the shooting rampage at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn. in 2012, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo said in a radio interview that when it came to assault weapons “confiscation could be an option, mandatory sale to the state could be an option.” > > … > > Ultimately, if gun-control advocates really want to stanch the blood, there’s no way around it: They’ll have to persuade more people of the need to confiscate millions of those firearms, as radical as that idea may now seem. ---
**Author:** ![AgingLiberalD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2bfe46/32.png) [@AgingLiberalD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AgingLiberalD)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/138 "2018-02-21T07:26:17Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Confiscation is never going to work. Any plan for reducing the number of firearms in the country has to have the force of public opinion behind it or it will fail miserably. > > Better to do something like immediately ban the manufacture, import, sale or transfer of any semi-automatic center-fire rifle. Then give a $300 or so tax credit for every upper receiver turned in for destruction. Turn in 5 of them and you get 5 years worth of tax credits. That spreads out the tax hit. Since the guns can’t be sold or transferred, the numbers go down as their owners die off. Eventually the guns are gone. > > Too logical. Would never work. I think that is a great idea, however those weapons are fun to shoot, and I believe all Americans should be allowed to do so responsibly. Plus, they would be effective in one of those Red Dawn or gun-grabbing situations, and I think my plan allows and encourages the average citizen to have greater access to the proper training to be effective in that or any scenario where they might have a firearm. Also, confiscation was never in my plan. Nobody would enjoy that. My plan allows entropy to take care of the guns. Plans like yours could also be used to help speed up the voluntary collection process. ---
**Author:** ![AgingLiberalD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2bfe46/32.png) [@AgingLiberalD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AgingLiberalD)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/139 "2018-02-21T07:39:41Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > There are plenty of solutions to the gun control problem that would work **if** there were sufficient political support to implement them. > > ‘If.’ Such a tiny word, yet so easy to trip over. Yeah the title was mainly to get people to actually view the post and engage in the sharing of ideas. I understand the likelihood(or rather how unlikeliness) of any part of my plan being considered at any point in the foreseeable future but I still believe this is the foundation for an extremely successful solution. ---
**Author:** ![AgingLiberalD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2bfe46/32.png) [@AgingLiberalD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AgingLiberalD)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181/140 "2018-02-21T07:54:26Z")
> [@Mdcastle](#): > > So if there’s a home invader in my house or a guy about to mug me, I’m supposed to ask them if they’ll please hold off until I can go check out a firearm from the armory? No, hopefully the firearm you currently own, (or the one that you would likely purchase if such a law were ever a reality) is closer to you than the intruder. A firearm is a reactive measure of defense. If you are truely worried about your family, you should be pro-active in protecting them. It is much safer for you, your family, and your property, to take measures to make your home a less likely target for a dangerous intruder in the first place. Plus, it’s less messy. And as far as a mugger, you should just give them your stuff. Any good self defense instructor will tell you that. Trained fighters and CCW holders have been killed because the real world is not ‘Deathwish’. Besides, muggers usually target people who look vulnerable, especially ones that aren’t paying attention. Just being aware of your surroundings is more effective than believing you’ll be able to spot the threat, ready your weapon, and decide to fire with enough distance for a gun to be preferable to a knife in a self defense situation. Besides, if you have the disposable income to purchase a firearm, you probably have enough in the bank to cover whatever this straw mugger would take. Plus, there would be the opportunity for a burgeoning new mugging insurance policy to protect you and your assets. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-solved-the-gun-control-problem/809181.md?page=8)