# I Steadfastly Reject This Sudden Rush to Redefine "Thug" as a Racial Slur **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 1, 2015, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959 "2015-05-01T03:04:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/241 "2015-05-03T14:13:42Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I teach in a predominantly black and poor district. My kids seldom use the word thug at all. The few times I’ve heard them use it, it was as part of the phrase “thug life” and they were using that phrase jokingly. So, my poor, urban, black kids don’t give the word as much emotional weight as yours do. I don’t think we can draw too many conclusions based on the kids when the kids don’t have a uniform opinion themselves. Ask your kids what they think or how they feel when a white person uses the word “thug” to refer to a black person–or even more specifically, to one of them. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/242 "2015-05-03T14:17:56Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > It is, but it’s not locked on yet :). It’s searching for further confirmation, one way or the other. And when the guy says “thug equals low level brutish criminal” and therefore Erkle is a thug because he just got arrested for a strong armed liquor story robbery what do you do? Do you say pardon me or do keep digging for possible racial overtones? "Just " Wondering my ass. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/243 "2015-05-03T14:22:04Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > And when the guy says “thug equals low level brutish criminal” and therefore Erkle is a thug because he just got arrested for a strong armed liquor story robbery what do you do? > > Do you say pardon me or do keep digging for possible racial overtones? > > "Just " Wondering my ass. you seem oddly obsessed with trying to prove how not racist you are ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/244 "2015-05-03T14:29:33Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > you seem oddly obsessed with trying to prove how not racist you are Actually I don’t care if someone thinks I’m racist. If they are too stupid to actually come up with a reasonable reason to think so and wanna get personally butthurt through crappy logic and poor reading comprehension then as far as I am concerned stupidity is its own punishment in that case. And you seem to be oddly obsessed with black people doing bad things being labeled as people doing bad things. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/245 "2015-05-03T14:31:07Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > And when the guy says “thug equals low level brutish criminal” and therefore Erkle is a thug because he just got arrested for a strong armed liquor story robbery what do you do? Who the fuck is Erkle ? ---
**Author:** ![piepiepie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47774/32.png) [@piepiepie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/piepiepie)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/246 "2015-05-03T14:35:57Z")
> [@planetcory](#): > > The issue is that ‘thug’ is being assigned to young black men for behavior that isn’t criminal. Black men who aren’t sufficiently docile. Black men who assert ourselves in anyway. Or maybe wear our baseball hats at a jaunty angle. Uppity. Maybe even jerks. We get branded with criminality. > > The problem isn’t with calling thugs thugs. It’s with calling my nephew a thug because you don’t approve of how his pants fit. The words change, but the sentiment remains. Today’s thugs are yesterday’s spooks. This is a good post. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/247 "2015-05-03T14:39:24Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Actually I don’t care if someone thinks I’m racist. I think thou doth protest too much > [@](#): > > And you seem to be oddly obsessed with black people doing bad things being labeled as people doing bad things. Well if you were paying attention you would see that what people are primarily objecting too is referring to black people who are not criminals as thugs. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/248 "2015-05-03T14:44:50Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Well if you were paying attention you would see that what people are primarily objecting too is referring to black people who are not criminals as thugs. Well, perhaps that’s what you should actually be complaining about. I think that people inappropriately using the word to describe non-violent criminals, or people who aren’t criminals at all should be taken to task for doing it. They’re using the word wrong, are are just as stupid as the people who are looking to restrict using the word “thug” accurately. Coming on a message board and trying to declare a word verboten because some people are using it incorrectly seems to be the worst possible solution to that problem. ---
**Author:** ![mrldii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@mrldii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrldii)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/249 "2015-05-03T14:50:02Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > …Black people tell you the word is offensive to them. You don’t get to tell them that they are wrong… And, the fellow citizens of Baltimore are telling the local and imported “thugs” their behavior - which IS “thuggish” - is offensive to _them_. They should stop their waddling and quacking if they’re _truly_ that upset about being labeled “ducks”. If they don’t like the **RE** action they’re getting, they should stop the action. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/250 "2015-05-03T14:55:31Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Well, perhaps that’s what you should actually be complaining about. I think that people inappropriately using the word to describe non-violent criminals, or people who aren’t criminals at all should be taken to task for doing it. They’re using the word wrong, are are just as stupid as the people who are looking to restrict using the word “thug” accurately. > > Coming on a message board and trying to declare a word verboten because some people are using it incorrectly seems to be the worst possible solution to that problem. you know, if i was trying to censure the use of the word in all situations, you might have a point ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/251 "2015-05-03T15:03:41Z")
> [@Sahirrnee](#): > > So, if I am understanding this argument correctly > > When some people hear the word ‘thug’ their mind instantly leaps to black, however those of us whose minds don’t make that leap are the racist ones. > > Got it! No the argument is, and always has been, there are media figures and others who sound like they are using the word “thug” because they know they can’t use the N word. How hard is that to grasp? ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/252 "2015-05-03T15:12:09Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > you know, if i was trying to censure the use of the word in all situations, you might have a point Why fixate on the word at all? As has been shown in this thread, there are plenty of words that the timid racist can use besides thug to disparage those they’re prejudging. Focusing on this word isn’t going to stop them for even a minute. They’ll happily move on to the next “acceptable” word. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/253 "2015-05-03T15:12:53Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > All right, let’s have a hypothetical : you and I are observing a young, black male that happens to be behaving in a thug-like fashion (whatthefuckever that may mean). And you call him a thug. If we assume that I am not a mind reader, how am\* I \*supposed to know, without the shadow of a doubt, that you are prompted to use the word strictly and specifically because of said thuggish behaviour, or because he happens to be a young black male, or a little bit of both ? > > I can’t. So unless I’ve known you for a long time and feel like I have a pretty good sense of what you’re about, I’m going to raise an inquisitive eyebrow at you. I’m not going to assume then and there, based on that one ambiguous use of a word, that you’re a racist… but I am going to be watching you more closely for indications of such. > > Whereas you _could_ just call him an asshole and dispel any ambiguity. So why not just do that instead ? If “asshole” and “thug” were synonymous, you might have a point. But they aren’t. And you keep assuming that I care what you think, when what you think is ungrounded. Think anything you like. But if you are going to then accuse me of being a racist, you are going to face charges of prejudice yourself. > [@MandaJo](#): > > No, because it’s context, not intelligence, that defines what a word “really” means–and in an urban public school that is 80% minority, “thug” is a tough poor black kid. It’s what the word means here. It’s what my kids would hear. Again, that would strongly imply ignorance on their part of what the word means in the wider world. I would expect “freakishly brilliant” students to know that. If they never encountered it in any other context, then I’d be doing them a service by introducing them to a new context that they should have already experienced. It’s not an uncommon word used to simply mean “violent, criminal type regardless of race”. It could be what many folks like to call a “teachable moment”. > [@](#): > > Referring to someone as a “Yankee” here in TX it means something different than calling someone a “Yankee” in the UK. Which is the “real” definition? Who is being “ignorant”? If I heard someone in the UK refer to a Yankee, I wouldn’t, unlike your “freakishly brilliant student” assume it meant a Northerner in the US. First of all, they would probably say Yank, not Yankee, but that’s another point. I know the different contexts of the word, and would ask for clarification if needed, or just let it go if it wasn’t a critical part of the conversation. It’s the same thing where I live (in CA) when people talk about “back east”. They may mean Chicago, which to me is the midwest. But I guess I’m “freakishly brilliant” enough to know the different contexts and to not assume they mean what my default meaning of the phrase is. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/254 "2015-05-03T15:18:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > But if you are going to then accuse me of being a racist, you are going to face charges of prejudice yourself. I think the principle at hand is if you go out of your way to defend racists, you must in turn be a racist. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/255 "2015-05-03T15:21:57Z")
It must really suck to be a criminal criminal defense lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/256 "2015-05-03T15:29:53Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I think the principle at hand is if you go out of your way to defend racists, you must in turn be a racist. Since I’m not doing that, I have nothing to worry about. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/257 "2015-05-03T15:31:56Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Why fixate on the word at all? As has been shown in this thread, there are plenty of words that the timid racist can use besides thug to disparage those they’re prejudging. The same words bold _non-racists_ can use to disparage those they’re _post-judging!_ > [@](#): > > Focusing on this word isn’t going to stop them for even a minute. They’ll happily move on to the next “acceptable” word. It’s even “commendable”, or so I’ve been told! ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/258 "2015-05-03T15:39:55Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Why fixate on the word at all? As has been shown in this thread, there are plenty of words that the timid racist can use besides thug to disparage those they’re prejudging. Focusing on this word isn’t going to stop them for even a minute. They’ll happily move on to the next “acceptable” word. I’m not sure what you mean to imply. Are you implying this could all lead to some exaggerated climate where politically correct thinking leads to the censure and oppression of unpopular/unacceptable thoughts and statements? If that is your point I think it is a valid point of concern. If your point is that we should just ignore racist talk and move on, because, they will just find another word, well I am not sure I agree with that. I think there is some type of balance to be achieved and I do not support the idea of simply ignoring problems. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/259 "2015-05-03T15:41:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Since I’m not doing that, I have nothing to worry about. ummm… ok ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/260 "2015-05-03T15:46:18Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Who the fuck is Erkle ? If you don’t know who Erkle is I put forth the proposition that you are neither old enough or culturally aware enough to be in this debate. See what I did there? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959.md?page=14)