# I Steadfastly Reject This Sudden Rush to Redefine "Thug" as a Racial Slur **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 1, 2015, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959 "2015-05-01T03:04:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/501 "2015-05-05T05:16:33Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > This. When my ex used to bartend, she had this one customer that would use the word “Ma’am” to mean bitch any time he had a disagreement with her. > > “Excuse me _MA’AM_, I did not drink 6 beers _MA’AM_!” > > You could tell by his infection on the word ma’am, he did not mean it respectfully. > > I sure hope the anti thug crowd understands that ANY word can be turned into the N-word. So wait, being disrespectful to someone can now be labeled as being racist? WTF have we gotten ourselves into? ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/502 "2015-05-05T05:18:43Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > “Thug” is code for “n\*\*\*\*r.” period. I think I’m gonna call… > [@jz78817](#): > > bullshit. …on that. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/503 "2015-05-05T05:56:30Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > So wait, being disrespectful to someone can now be labeled as being racist? > > WTF have we gotten ourselves into? No I’m merely pointing out that any word, said with the proper inflection or in certain context, can mean any sort of pejorative you want it to. In the context I gave above, dude clearly meant 'ma’am" to mean bitch. My ex is as white as they come, so it certainly wasn’t racist. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/504 "2015-05-05T06:10:37Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > bullshit. I’ve already posted about Richard Sherman; all he did was toss back a bit of trash talking after his team won a game which sent them to the Superbowl, and the sports world was all over him for being a “thug.” > > “Thug” is code for “n\*\*\*\*r.” period. > > bite me. I hear it in hockey quite a bit to refer to dirty players in general, as in, “Milan Lucic is the biggest thug in the NHL,” or, “The Flyers are nothing but a bunch of dirty thugs.” Yes, some people use “thug” to substitute for the n-word. Just like they do “ghetto”. That doesn’t mean that’s always what it means. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/505 "2015-05-05T11:31:04Z")
“Steadfastly rejecting” is a white guy thing. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/506 "2015-05-05T14:19:59Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Are you making an effort to educate all your friends on Fox News about their use of the word? Are you? I’m not the mindreader whining about Hannity’s use of the word “thug”. If Hannity, or Obama, hurt YOUR feelings by their use of the word “thug”, why should I be the one to address YOUR issue? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/507 "2015-05-05T14:30:24Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > _Why do you think this story is in the news right now?!_ Besides being a slow news day? 🙂 I suspect it is because the politically-correct, word-police want to gauge how effective they are at influencing those who are ignorant of the common use meaning of the word “thug”. OTOH, it’s apparent that many people expect actual proof, and a compelling reason, before they succumb to the feelings of the politically-correct, word-police. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/508 "2015-05-05T14:39:23Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Don’t forget to include Karl Rove, [who called the rapper Common a “thug” when he was invited to a White House event in 2011](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/may/rapper-common-white-house-invite) because he didn’t like some of Common’s lyrics. > > Common is a black man who AFAIK has never been involved in any kind of violent activities. Oh My! Did you let Rove know that you object to Rove’s allegedly incorrect use of the word “thug”? If not, why not? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/509 "2015-05-05T14:42:25Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Oh My! Did you let Rove know that you object to Rove’s allegedly incorrect use of the word “thug”? If not, why not? Allegedly? You think it’s the proper use of the word or not? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/510 "2015-05-05T14:59:08Z")
Yeah, bring that shit, **doorhinge**. Explain how it’s accurate to call Common a thug. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/511 "2015-05-05T15:21:04Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > If you call someone a “thug”, you are calling them a violent person, regardless of race. If that descriptor was used incorrectly, you could/should make an effort to educate the person who used the word incorrectly. > [@Kimstu](#): > > Don’t forget to include Karl Rove, who called the rapper Common a “thug” when he was invited to a White House event in 2011 because he didn’t like some of Common’s lyrics. > > Common is a black man who AFAIK has never been involved in any kind of violent activities. > [@doorhinge](#): > > Oh My! Did you let Rove know that you object to Rove’s allegedly incorrect use of the word “thug”? If not, why not? Because **I’m not the one who’s arguing that non-racists are responsible for trying to hold back the tide of linguistic change.** When racists associate derogatory terms with disfavored groups rather than with specific behavior(s), that inevitably changes the connotations of those terms. It’s neither my job nor within my power to prevent that change from happening. When I notice that racists are frequently using “thug” to refer to a black man who’s not brutal or violent, I’m willing to stop using the term “thug” to refer to black men (violent or otherwise), so I won’t sound like a racist. But I’m not willing to go around policing racists’ use of the word “thug” so that you can go on using it without having other people think you sound like a racist. I don’t give two hoots whether other people think you sound like a racist because you can’t be bothered to pay attention to the connotations of the terms you use. Especially since you seem so willing to believe that the rapper Common, who as I noted has no record whatsoever of violent or brutal behavior, might be a thug just on Karl Rove’s say-so. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/512 "2015-05-05T16:26:30Z")
I never associated “thug” with just black people at all. 😕 Honestly, (and I could be wrong here), I think that I agree with the people who say that the word shouldn’t be off-limits when used “appropriately”. I get the same feeling of I hear stuff like, “Don’t call a girl or a woman ‘bossy’”. I just… I don’t understand why we’re constantly re-adjusting the way we communicate with others because we’re so sensitive, (perhaps rightfully so - I’m a bully victim). Bullies thrive on getting a reaction. If these people get wind, (perhaps they already have, I don’t watch tv or talk radio), that there are people complaining about this; they’re going to make a big deal about it, and say; “Now the PC police want you to stop using the word ‘thug’, how ludicrous is that!?” Like I said, I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/513 "2015-05-05T16:32:28Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Allegedly? You think it’s the proper use of the word or not? > [@andros](#): > > Yeah, bring that shit, **doorhinge**. Explain how it’s accurate to call Common a thug. > [@Kimstu](#): > > …Especially since you seem so willing to believe that the rapper Common, who as I noted has no record whatsoever of violent or brutal behavior, might be a thug just on Karl Rove’s say-so. Hahahaha. I’m told that Rove referred to someone named Common, as a “thug”. :eek: If any of you have a problem with Rove’s use of the word, I suggest you take it up with Rove. I didn’t call Common a “thug”. I didn’t say I accepted Rove’s description. However, I Steadfastly Reject This Sudden Rush to Redefine “Thug” as a Racial Slur. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/514 "2015-05-05T16:36:49Z")
You can’t bring yourself to say Rove was wrong? Ok. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/515 "2015-05-05T16:37:08Z")
I’m sorry, but when your argument that a word means something boils down to INDIVIDUAL cases of some dick somewhere using the word in a negative fashion IMO you’ve lost the argument. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/516 "2015-05-05T16:43:49Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Hahahaha. I’m told that Rove referred to someone named Common, as a “thug”. :eek: If any of you have a problem with Rove’s use of the word, I suggest you take it up with Rove. > > I didn’t call Common a “thug”. > > I didn’t say I accepted Rove’s description. Do you agree that if Common is **not** in fact a violent person, Rove was using the term “thug” incorrectly to refer to him? And if so, do you agree that the fact that Common is a black man suggests that Rove’s incorrect use of the term “thug” has connotations of a racial slur? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/517 "2015-05-05T16:44:11Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > I’m sorry, but when your argument that a word means something boils down to INDIVIDUAL cases of some dick somewhere using the word in a negative fashion IMO you’ve lost the argument. So help me out: how other than a collection of individual cases could the argument be made? Only announcement by groups would convince you? I don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/518 "2015-05-05T16:47:59Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] There are three basic groups involved in this issue. The first is racists, who have started to use “thug” as a catch-all term for any young black male. The second are people who have noticed what the first group is doing, and are saying, “Hey, that’s fucked up, what those people are doing with the word ‘thug.’” The third group are people who have not noticed what the first group is doing. [/QUOTE] You forgot the fourth group, which is people who think the race card is a trump. [QUOTE=planetcorey] Us saying it’s a thing doesn’t convince you it’s a thing. Think about that. [/QUOTE] OK, I’ve thought about it. Why should I believe you without evidence? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/519 "2015-05-05T16:54:44Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > I’m sorry, but when your argument that a word means something boils down to INDIVIDUAL cases of some dick somewhere using the word in a negative fashion IMO you’ve lost the argument. Nobody’s arguing that examples of people using “thug” as a racial slur somehow change the **dictionary** definition of the word “thug”. But they do imply changes in the current **usage and connotations** of the word “thug”. When - Karl Rove calls Common a “thug” for being a nonviolent black rapper, - and media commenters call Richard Sherman a “thug” for being a nonviolent black football player with dreadlocks and an occasionally shouty demeanor, - and anonymous internet users opine that nonviolent little black boys “look like thugs” just because of their clothing or hairstyles, such examples imply that the current usage and connotations of the word “thug” extend beyond its dictionary meaning of “brutal violent person”. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/520 "2015-05-05T16:55:15Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > So help me out: how other than a collection of individual cases could the argument be made? Only announcement by groups would convince you? I don’t get it. A handful of cases out of millions of people is pretty weak proof. Your gonna have to do better than that. AFAICT you have a handful (like the number of people that went to fucking moon handful) of talking heads supposedly using thug as a code word for nigger. Supposedly. Then you have black folks that decided call calling themselves thugs was cool and embracing thuggery as a lifestyle was cool. Then they got bent when others called thuggery thuggery and found out talking heads might be talking in code. Hoisted by their own thug petards they were. Color me unconcerned and unconvinced. Would you like me to dig up some crazy assed shit Malcolm X has said as proof of the racial implication of words? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959.md?page=27)