# I Steadfastly Reject This Sudden Rush to Redefine "Thug" as a Racial Slur **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 1, 2015, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959 "2015-05-01T03:04:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2015, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/701 "2015-05-10T05:16:44Z")
“Ghetto” as an adjective, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2015, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/702 "2015-05-10T06:07:24Z")
> [@Shin\_Ji](#): > > How about “savage”? You have to go pretty far back, possibly pre-colonization, but savage used to refer to any number of people. Once white people started colonizing Africa, the term began to refer more and more to Black people specifically, to the point where when translating a Persian speaker’s words into French (around the turn of the century), the Persian word “savage” became “Black savage.” Huh? I did a quick google (savage -dan -michael) - nothing “racist” comes up at all. Where are you getting this idea from? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2015, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/703 "2015-05-10T06:12:24Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > “Ghetto” as an adjective, maybe? Since “ghetto” always referred to a poor urban area which is majority-minority, how did that definition change? [This article](http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2014/04/27/306829915/segregated-from-its-history-how-ghetto-lost-its-meaning) for example says nothing about it being “racist”. Or [this one](http://www.theroot.com/blogs/come_correct/2009/08/who_you_callin_ghetto.html). ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2015, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/704 "2015-05-10T06:52:22Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Huh? I did a quick google (savage -dan -michael) - nothing “racist” comes up at all. Where are you getting this idea from? I have no clue. Personally, I routinely use ‘savage’ to refer to plenty of non-Black groups (Pashtuns, for example). ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2015, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/705 "2015-05-10T08:08:06Z")
“lazy”. It’s never good to be called lazy, and it’s not a race-specific word, but in America calling a black person “lazy” comes with additional baggage. Its use when applied to blacks may or may not be racist-tinged. E.g. when rightwing commentators call Obama lazy for taking one mumbling day off or playing basketball, that can be assumed to be racist. Same with the “angry black man/woman”. Another example would be “devious” or “sneaky”, which are still applied to people based on their behaviour regardless of race but if you use them to describe Asian guys that’s dicier, again due to historical baggage. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/706 "2015-05-11T17:49:09Z")
> [@Shin\_Ji](#): > > …But that’s something that you sort of feel in your gut, right? No one really needed to prove to you that the slur was completely inappropriate for white people to use in nearly any situation; you just knew that. I’d expect you’d respond quite negatively to someone who persisted in their use of that slur because they refused to accept that it was wrong to do so, as my friend I mentioned above did. (post shortened) You seem to believe that it’s only inappropriate if white people use the N-word? That seems to be a rather racist position, if you ask me. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/707 "2015-05-11T19:48:21Z")
Oh for fuck’s sake, not \*this \*horseshit again. ---
**Author:** ![Shin\_Ji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Shin\_Ji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shin_Ji)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/708 "2015-05-12T07:52:42Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > You seem to believe that it’s only inappropriate if white people use the N-word? That seems to be a rather racist position, if you ask me. You can substitute non-Black for white if you prefer. But yes. And seriously. Prejudice + power. I mean, for fuck’s sake. Read a book. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/709 "2015-05-12T15:32:15Z")
> [@Shin\_Ji](#): > > You can substitute non-Black for white if you prefer. But yes. > > And seriously. Prejudice + power. I mean, for fuck’s sake. Read a book. OK, you find racism to be acceptable. You’re entitled to your opinion. What book do you recommend? Archie? Batman? Harry Potter? FYI - **Kobal2** doesn’t want people to debate this topic any further. Didn’t you understand his dog whistle? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/710 "2015-05-12T15:39:55Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > OK, you find racism to be acceptable. You’re entitled to your opinion. That is an astounding misrepresentation of the facts. It also appears to be deliberately offensive and deliberately obtuse. I would dearly love to assume that’s for rhetorical effect and you’re going to follow it with a more cogent point? ---
**Author:** ![Shin\_Ji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Shin\_Ji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shin_Ji)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/711 "2015-05-12T15:59:28Z")
> [@andros](#): > > That is an astounding misrepresentation of the facts. It also appears to be deliberately offensive and deliberately obtuse. I would dearly love to assume that’s for rhetorical effect and you’re going to follow it with a more cogent point? Nah, he’s pretty clearly one of those white people who thinks the only racism that still exists is the sort that affects him personally. You see these sorts wherever white men gather. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/712 "2015-05-12T16:01:34Z")
Posts for historical reference - > [@Shin\_Ji](#): > > …But that’s something that you sort of feel in your gut, right? No one really needed to prove to you that the slur was completely inappropriate for white people to use in nearly any situation; you just knew that. I’d expect you’d respond quite negatively to someone who persisted in their use of that slur because they refused to accept that it was wrong to do so, as my friend I mentioned above did. > [@doorhinge](#): > > You seem to believe that it’s only inappropriate if white people use the N-word? That seems to be a rather racist position, if you ask me. > [@Shin\_Ji](#): > > You can substitute non-Black for white if you prefer. But yes. > [@doorhinge](#): > > OK, you find racism to be acceptable. You’re entitled to your opinion. > [@andros](#): > > That is an astounding misrepresentation of the facts. It also appears to be deliberately offensive and deliberately obtuse. I would dearly love to assume that’s for rhetorical effect and you’re going to follow it with a more cogent point? Astounding? Astounding misrepresentation of the facts? Let’s take a look at the instant replay. **Shin Ji** - _was completely inappropriate for white people to use in nearly any situation_ **doorhinge** - _it’s only inappropriate if white people use the N-word_ **Shin Ji** - _Yes_ **doorhinge** - _OK, you find racism to be acceptable_. What is astounding about that exchange? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/713 "2015-05-12T16:16:22Z")
So…you \*honestly \*believe that it’s racist to say that African-Americans should have a near-monopoly on the word “nigger?” ---
**Author:** ![Shin\_Ji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Shin\_Ji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shin_Ji)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/714 "2015-05-12T16:42:27Z")
> [@andros](#): > > So…you \*honestly \*believe that it’s racist to say that African-Americans should have a near-monopoly on the word “nigger?” There’s probably no point in engaging. I’m certain doorhinge does believe exactly that. Without such brave posters, who will stand up for the rights of the white people? Specifically, their rights to use disparaging slurs against the people their ancestors enslaved not to terribly long ago. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/715 "2015-05-12T17:38:50Z")
> [@andros](#): > > So…you \*honestly \*believe that it’s racist to say that African-Americans should have a near-monopoly on the word “nigger?” In the U.S., is the N-word unacceptable? Yes, or no? Referring back to my post on Godwin’s Law, Mike Goodwin believes that using the term Nazi to describe others (non-Nazis) actually trivializes the Holocaust. I agree with him. I happen to believe the N-word is equal in social stigma to the term Nazi. I believe the general use of the N-word trivializes the meaning of the N-word, as well as it’s history, and its associated baggage. I also believe that the light-hearted, or friendly, use of the N-word among black people also trivializes the meaning of the N-word. I sometimes wonder how offensive can the N-word be, if some black people use it as a greeting, or self-identification? What other words do you believe should awarded a near-monopoly based on skin color? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/716 "2015-05-12T17:42:40Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > In the U.S., is the N-word unacceptable? Yes, or no? > > Referring back to my post on Godwin’s Law, Mike Goodwin believes that using the term Nazi to describe others (non-Nazis) actually trivializes the Holocaust. I agree with him. > > I happen to believe the N-word is equal in social stigma to the term Nazi. I believe the general use of the N-word trivializes the meaning of the N-word, as well as it’s history, and its associated baggage. I also believe that the light-hearted, or friendly, use of the N-word among black people also trivializes the meaning of the N-word. I sometimes wonder how offensive can the N-word be, if some black people use it as a greeting, or self-identification? > > What other words do you believe should awarded a near-monopoly based on skin color? The words are uncomparable. “Nazis” refers to a group that, collectively, did terrible things. “Nigger” refers to a group that, collectively, had terrible things done to them. Those are not comparable at all. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/717 "2015-05-12T17:42:49Z")
> [@Shin\_Ji](#): > > Nah, he’s pretty clearly one of those white people who thinks the only racism that still exists is the sort that affects him personally. You see these sorts wherever white men gather. I see those sorts in this very thread. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/718 "2015-05-12T17:52:53Z")
Is anyone else amused that, for the most part, the people in this thread who are complaining about the supposed “language police” are typing “n-word,” while the actual people accused of being the language police are writing “nigger?” ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/719 "2015-05-12T19:23:14Z")
No particular surprise there. The word police, as self-appointed social justice warriors, know they are free to use the n-word without it causing a tidal wave of condemnation. Those claiming “thug” has not crossed over into racial insult are perceived as the bad guys (and even worse, probable conservatives) and were they to use the actual word it would be played as proof of their racism and used to derail whatever points they try to make. ---
**Author:** ![Shin\_Ji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Shin\_Ji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shin_Ji)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/720 "2015-05-12T19:53:50Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Is anyone else amused that, for the most part, the people in this thread who are complaining about the supposed “language police” are typing “n-word,” while the actual people accused of being the language police are writing “nigger?” I guess I’m the exception to that rule. I could see myself typing the actual word if there was a real need for it, or if I was quoting someone, but generally it’s one of the very few words I don’t even like to type out. That’s just me, tho. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959.md?page=37)