# I Steadfastly Reject This Sudden Rush to Redefine "Thug" as a Racial Slur **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 1, 2015, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959 "2015-05-01T03:04:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/161 "2015-05-03T01:31:29Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Then you’re admitting to being a racist. Black people tell you the word is offensive to them. You don’t get to tell them that they are wrong. You are not the almighty white person who tells black people what they can and cannot find offensive. (post shortened and underline added) I think you’re admitting to be a racist. Or maybe not? If all it takes to make such a claim is to make the claim, then we’re all sunk. I suggest that you spend some time educating the people who don’t know the common, dictionary, meaning of the word “thug”. If you don’t, who will? And what word will they (you know, those people) object to tomorrow? Billabong? Jellyroll? Whoop-de-do? Where will it all end? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/162 "2015-05-03T01:31:43Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > CONTEXT > > When speaking in a derogatory manner about an African American who is not a criminal and calling them a thug means you are being racist Well, good thing I’m not doing that then. And for that matter I’m not seeing many folks around here arguing against that particular observation. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/163 "2015-05-03T01:32:32Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > CONTEXT > > When speaking in a derogatory manner about an African American who is not a criminal and calling them a thug means you are being racist Thug does not necessarily mean criminal. How about “when speaking in a derogatory manner about an African American who is not a thug and calling them a thug means you are being racist.” I will accept that. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/164 "2015-05-03T01:32:56Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > Yeah, except you have to account for all the times thug is used without any racial connotation. If somebody were to use the word “idiot” out of racial animus, it doesn’t automatically become an epithet. > > Maybe some people use it as a slur. But that doesn’t mean it is solely a slur. and who said thug is solely a racial slur? ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/165 "2015-05-03T01:36:53Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > Right. I don’t think any particular group gets to decide, for all of us, that a word is offensive to them without a history which justifies the offense. I can name plenty of words for which that history exists, and I accept that we shouldn’t use those words. I’m still not getting the proof of said history here. The best evidence that has been offered up is that some youth culture uses thug to refer to a certain socioeconomic + racial combination, but it sounds like within that youth culture it isn’t even a slur, but rather an identifier, and possibly even a somewhat positive one. Again, like the way the word nigger is used by the black community as a term of endearment. I accept that that word is off-limits for me because of its dark history. I don’t accept that about thug. > > How many complaints do we need to declare a word offensive? If I can find a few folks to complain that hooligan is offensive to the Irish, are we now in such a sensitive world that any pejorative can be killed off by any scurrilous complaint? > > Show me the proof that thug has this a. history and b. widespread usage as a slur (NOT self-applied descriptor) I suggest that you have a staggering level of ignorance on this topic. Black people refer to each other (in the way that you claim) as nigga, not, the form of the word you used. I object to the use, as well as do many African Americans, but please, please, try to stick to talking about things that you actually know about. If you don’t have a clear understanding of the cultural context of the two uses of the “N” word I doubt you posses either the knowledge or objectivity to examine the use of a word like thug. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/166 "2015-05-03T01:38:06Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Well, good thing I’m not doing that then. And for that matter I’m not seeing many folks around here arguing against that particular observation. then what are you doing??? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/167 "2015-05-03T01:40:05Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > CONTEXT > > When speaking in a derogatory manner about an African American who is not a criminal and calling them a thug means you are being racist Isn’t that what Obama did when he referred to the protestors in Baltimore as thugs? Or was Obama only calling the looters, and arsonists, in Baltimore, thugs? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/168 "2015-05-03T01:44:18Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > then what are you doing??? Good grief. Did your translator microbes catch polio or something? I’ll get back to you when you start making a modicum of sense. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/169 "2015-05-03T01:44:25Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > I’ve heard people use it in place of the N word. Yeah, it happens, and I find it odd that people are dnying that the word can be used in place of another word. I saw it explode in the racist rantings online concerning Richard Sherman’s interview outburst. In no way did Mr. Sherman fit any definition of “Thug”, but c’mon, people couldn’t hardly call him ni\*\*\*\* on Facebook, could they? So they called him Thug. It happens. Context matters. Intention matters. A rose by any other name? It’s just a word. What’s behind the specific usage? This. When my ex used to bartend, she had this one customer that would use the word “Ma’am” to mean bitch any time he had a disagreement with her. “Excuse me _MA’AM_, I did not drink 6 beers _MA’AM_!” You could tell by his infection on the word ma’am, he did not mean it respectfully. I sure hope the anti thug crowd understands that ANY word can be turned into the N-word. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/170 "2015-05-03T01:45:08Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Isn’t that what Obama did when he referred to the protestors in Baltimore as thugs? Or was Obama only calling the looters, and arsonists, in Baltimore, thugs? It was a poor choice of words on his part. I am mainly objecting to how it is used by someone like Hannity or O’ Reilly. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/171 "2015-05-03T01:46:38Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Good grief. Did your translator microbes catch polio or something? > > I’ll get back to you when you start making a modicum of sense. Forgive me if I am suspicious when people defend other people for using derogatory terms that have a racist connotation. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/172 "2015-05-03T01:47:36Z")
They will have to pry “well, bless your heart” from my cold, dead, hateful hands 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/173 "2015-05-03T01:48:42Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > and who said thug is solely a racial slur? Then you have no case. Unless it’s your claim that calling black people thugs is racist, but it’s OK with you if everyone else can be identified as thugs? ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/174 "2015-05-03T01:53:03Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Then you have no case. > > Unless it’s your claim that calling black people thugs is racist, but it’s OK with you if everyone else can be identified as thugs? I’d be glad to answer that question but first I have a question for you. Why is it so important to you that thug is not racially derogatory when used towards black people? I know why the issue is important to me. Why is it important to you? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/175 "2015-05-03T01:53:57Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > This. When my ex used to bartend, she had this one customer that would use the word “Ma’am” to mean bitch any time he had a disagreement with her. > > “Excuse me _MA’AM_, I did not drink 6 beers _MA’AM_!” > > You could tell by his infection on the word ma’am, he did not mean it respectfully. > > I sure hope the anti thug crowd understands that ANY word can be turned into the N-word. So the customer was calling your ex an n-word? (And, just to clarify the issue, which side do you believe, is the “anti-thug” crowd?) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/176 "2015-05-03T01:57:24Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Isn’t that what Obama did when he referred to the protestors in Baltimore as thugs? Or was Obama only calling the looters, and arsonists, in Baltimore, thugs? As did the mayor, although she later took it back and apologized FWIW. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/177 "2015-05-03T01:58:26Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I’d be glad to answer that question… (post shortened) I’ll be glad when you answer that question also, but I really don’t expect you to. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/178 "2015-05-03T01:59:21Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I suggest that you have a staggering level of ignorance on this topic. Black people refer to each other (in the way that you claim) as nigga, not, the form of the word you used. I object to the use, as well as do many African Americans, but please, please, try to stick to talking about things that you actually know about. If you don’t have a clear understanding of the cultural context of the two uses of the “N” word I doubt you posses either the knowledge or objectivity to examine the use of a word like thug. Please, enlighten me. You’ve just said that I am too ignorant and subjective to have this conversation. Quite the claim, especially from you. So I am very eager for you to provide the guidance I so clearly need. What is it, specifically, that I need to know to have this conversation? I’m not clear on how you could lead me to the requisite objectivity, since that’s an odd term in this context, but I would appreciate if you’d try on that one as well. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/179 "2015-05-03T02:02:48Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > Please, enlighten me. You’ve just said that I am too ignorant and subjective to have this conversation. Quite the claim, especially from you. So I am very eager for you to provide the guidance I so clearly need. What is it, specifically, that I need to know to have this conversation? I’m not clear on how you could lead me to the requisite objectivity, since that’s an odd term in this context, but I would appreciate if you’d try on that one as well. Quite simply, if you are not aware that when you think one black person is calling another black person Ni\*\*er they are actually calling each other Nigga, well are you even aware of this? Because it is not at all the way you described the use of the N word between black people. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959/180 "2015-05-03T02:06:29Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Forgive me if I am suspicious when people defend other people for using derogatory terms that have a racist connotation. I’ll not forgive you. Nobody in this thread has hinted at racism. There’s been some lively debate over whether a specific word is racist, with lots of latitude provided for those who could reasonably not be aware of the racist tones (alleged) to exist for the word thug. Thug might have a racist aspect (I am one not prepared to accept this without more evidence than has been provided), but denying that a word is racist does not make one a racist. And I find it very offensive for you to suggest otherwise. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959.md?page=10)