# I Submit A Simple Question About Gay Jokes (And Mental illness)... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 17, 2015, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-submit-a-simple-question-about-gay-jokes-and-mental-illness/740647 "2015-12-17T00:27:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-submit-a-simple-question-about-gay-jokes-and-mental-illness/740647/41 "2015-12-17T17:09:37Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > But the context is also what makes it funny or not. A Jewish person telling Jewish jokes has some amount of affection behind the jokes, even if he’s talking about absurdities in the culture. There isn’t hate behind it. And his starting point is something I could probably somewhat understand, even though I’m not Jewish. But an actual Nazi who actually believes in the extermination of the Jewish people would not have affection in the joke. And the context he would have and the premise he would be starting with about how the Jews are malevolent creatures would not be a starting point that most people would have. It’s not impossible that a Nazi could tell a funny Jewish joke, but it is extremely, extremely unlikely. Affection is necessary? Wow. That puts all the Hitler jokes on this board in a whole new light. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-submit-a-simple-question-about-gay-jokes-and-mental-illness/740647/42 "2015-12-17T17:29:43Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Affection is necessary? Wow. That puts all the Hitler jokes on this board in a whole new light. It’s not necessary, but it can make a difference when you are being targeted. If the target is some random person or thing, affection may or may not be necessary. But if someone is making a joke about me it makes a difference. My best friend or brother can make fun of me and it can be funny, but if a guy I met in a bar makes fun of me after 5 minutes it’s more likely to be rude. Just like John Waters or Kathy Griffin can and do make gay jokes, but it’s known that it’s all in fun. But if Mike Huckabee made the exact same joke that one of them made, it would be a lot different, because we know he’s against gay rights. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-submit-a-simple-question-about-gay-jokes-and-mental-illness/740647/43 "2015-12-17T17:37:25Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > I’m a person who was diagnosed schizophrenic, and although I was not dangerous to anyone (unless you want to claim that people who make life decisions and select priorities other than the ones you’d have selected are “dangerous to themselves”) that diagnosis was used to hold me for a little while. I got myself sprung. > > I use “lunatic”, “crazy”, “nuts”, etc, all the time. Many of us in the psychiatric patients’ rights movement do. It is the medical jargon such as “mentally ill” that I find more insulting. If I’m batshit insane, I’m batshit insane, but if it isn’t a condition I find unfortunate, and I’m not hurting anyone else, it’s not a fucking disease. Diseases are undesirable conditions. I’m a proudly nutty lunatic. There are different kinds of craziness, I guess. Some of them cause you to act in ways that are OK for you, but that other people don’t understand. Others cause you to systematically undermine _your own_ aspirations. I have the latter. From my point of view, illness is the only reasonable way to conceptualize what I’ve got. It’s interesting that we have opposite views on whether our respective conditions should be considered illness, but reach the same conclusion about the use of terms like _crazy_ and _lunatic_. On preview: for those who are imagining a Nazi telling Jew jokes, could you imagine listening to that Nazi telling any kind of joke and not feeling uncomfortable about it? In other words, how much is it the content of the joke, and how much is it just that you don’t like to think of an evil Nazi being happy about anything at all? Could you enjoy listening to a comedian tell totally innocuous jokes if you knew that he had formerly been a guard at Dachau? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-submit-a-simple-question-about-gay-jokes-and-mental-illness/740647/44 "2015-12-17T19:07:04Z")
> [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > On preview: for those who are imagining a Nazi telling Jew jokes, could you imagine listening to that Nazi telling any kind of joke and not feeling uncomfortable about it? In other words, how much is it the content of the joke, and how much is it just that you don’t like to think of an evil Nazi being happy about anything at all? Could you enjoy listening to a comedian tell totally innocuous jokes if you knew that he had formerly been a guard at Dachau? Well the image of an actual Nazi from WWII telling Jewish jokes today is an absurd image, partly since he’d be at least 90 something, it’s hard to imagine my real world reaction to it. I believe Siam Sam was making a point with hyperbole. But for a more real world example like my other example of Mike Huckabee telling gay jokes, it would be about the content of the joke, but also what I know about his feelings towards gay people. I could imagine him saying jokes about other topics that could maybe make me laugh. It’s not like the idea of him being happy or laughing fills me with disgust. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-submit-a-simple-question-about-gay-jokes-and-mental-illness/740647/45 "2015-12-17T19:13:33Z")
> [@Foggy](#): > > Words don’t leave visible scars, because they cut your soul, rip your heart apart, and can haunt you forever, but yeah just words. > > just words… just words… Indeed they are just words. People can string words together for a variety of reasons, including making a joke or trying to cause hurt feelings. But how you deal with those words is up to you. You can give words as much or as little power inside your mind as you like, you have the power. Just because I say you’re \ doesn’t mean you are. And just because I say the sky is green or I have a million dollars doesn’t make it true. You have to decide for yourself. In the words of The Dude, “That’s just, like, your _opinion_ man.” Many times in life you are the only one who can stick up for you. And people often say hurtful things because they themselves are hurting and they lash out because of it. People who said deeply hurtful things in the past probably don’t even remember what they said. Life goes on, no use dwelling. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-submit-a-simple-question-about-gay-jokes-and-mental-illness/740647/46 "2015-12-17T19:18:47Z")
The problem with most of the ‘offensive’ words in the OP is that they’re not used to describe a mental illness, they’re used to describe someone with wild, self-destructive, or otherwise unpleasant behavior. The person may or may not actually have a mental illness, and it’s not the illness that’s actually being discussed. I think the tendency to say ‘don’t call them crazy, say it’s mental illness’ does a great disservice to people with actual mental illness. Not everyone with a diagnosed mental illness engages in bad behavior towards other people, but using ‘mental illness’ as the label for crazy behavior implies that they do. > [@Scumpup](#): > > Affection is necessary? Wow. That puts all the Hitler jokes on this board in a whole new light. You know what pisses me off about this whole over-sensitivity thing? You never see anyone putting up a statue for the guy who killed Hitler!Talk about historical oversight! ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-submit-a-simple-question-about-gay-jokes-and-mental-illness/740647/47 "2015-12-17T19:28:40Z")
The jokes about Polish being dumb is the one that offends me the most and I am italian. I have to wonder where this came from. My guess is that it probably started with unsophisticated working class poles moving into cities when they migrated here. Similar to southerners migrating north. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-submit-a-simple-question-about-gay-jokes-and-mental-illness/740647/48 "2015-12-17T19:46:18Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Absolutely. And, I think the world would be a better place if we expanded this outside of our own little groups. Good natured humor, even that which involves sensitive topics, can be a powerful bond among people. I wish that off color, but well intentioned jokes could be more often met with like minded ripostes as a way to bring us all into a larger group together. Sure, but the problem is, a lot of jokes aren’t made in good humor. A lot of jokes - particularly about minority or disenfranchised groups - are made to be deliberately hurtful. And it’s not always easy to tell the difference between the two. Sure, when it’s the friend I’ve had since the second grade making gay jokes at me, I know he’s just busting my balls, and doesn’t mean anything by it. When it’s my new manager at work, who I’ve only known for a couple weeks? Yeah, maybe it’s all in good fun. Or maybe this guy is going to start trying to run me out of my job if he finds out I’m queer. For my own self-protection, I _can’t_ let that slide. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-submit-a-simple-question-about-gay-jokes-and-mental-illness/740647/49 "2015-12-17T19:53:47Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > The jokes about Polish being dumb is the one that offends me the most and I am italian. I have to wonder where this came from. My guess is that it probably started with unsophisticated working class poles moving into cities when they migrated here. Similar to southerners migrating north. Probably. In North America, around the turn of the last century, the target of choice for the “this nationality is dumb” joke used to be - the Swedes. Probably for the same reason - immigration from the working class. The “dumb Swede” theme was very popular, but has since died out so completely that it is an oddity when one comes across a reference to it (for example, in one of Robert Service’s poems about the Klondike gold rush). ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-submit-a-simple-question-about-gay-jokes-and-mental-illness/740647/50 "2015-12-17T20:20:21Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > That’s true. Dachau was a barrel of laughs. And Belsen was a gas. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-submit-a-simple-question-about-gay-jokes-and-mental-illness/740647/51 "2015-12-17T20:23:25Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > And Belsen was a gas. Reminds me of a Mad Magazine parody from the '60s … [https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/1713137.html](https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/1713137.html) ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-submit-a-simple-question-about-gay-jokes-and-mental-illness/740647/52 "2015-12-17T20:52:48Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > ISTM that your approach renders any joke involving either groups of humans or individual humans off limits. > > Can you come up with an example of a joke that fits your own filter? Other than perhaps chickens crossing roads for really inane reasons that aren’t sneak digs at some group of humans? Or are the only acceptable jokes simple wordplay? > > I’m not being (deliberately) obtuse here. Jokes have butts. I’m just struggling to see a joke with a non-human butt that ordinary humans would find funny. Puns. Everybody finds puns funny, right? What? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-submit-a-simple-question-about-gay-jokes-and-mental-illness/740647/53 "2015-12-17T20:55:21Z")
nm. ---
**Author:** ![Abner\_Ravenwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Abner\_Ravenwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abner_Ravenwood)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-submit-a-simple-question-about-gay-jokes-and-mental-illness/740647/54 "2015-12-17T21:13:17Z")
But is it okay to convert to Judaism for the jokes? ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-submit-a-simple-question-about-gay-jokes-and-mental-illness/740647/55 "2015-12-18T01:14:18Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > I think it comes down to whether the joke is laughing at someone or laughing with someone. This is the correct answer right here. You’re commiserating with humor, than you’re okay. You’re making fun of someone, belittling or bullying or oppressing them? Get the hell out. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-submit-a-simple-question-about-gay-jokes-and-mental-illness/740647/56 "2015-12-19T00:43:25Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > The jokes about Polish being dumb is the one that offends me the most and I am italian. I have to wonder where this came from. My guess is that it probably started with unsophisticated working class poles moving into cities when they migrated here. Similar to southerners migrating north. > [@Malthus](#): > > Probably. In North America, around the turn of the last century, the target of choice for the “this nationality is dumb” joke used to be - the Swedes. Probably for the same reason - immigration from the working class. > > The “dumb Swede” theme was very popular, but has since died out so completely that it is an oddity when one comes across a reference to it (for example, in one of Robert Service’s poems about the Klondike gold rush). I’m pretty sure the Irish got that treatment too in Boston. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-submit-a-simple-question-about-gay-jokes-and-mental-illness/740647/57 "2015-12-19T00:54:48Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > This is the correct answer right here. You’re commiserating with humor, than you’re okay. You’re making fun of someone, belittling or bullying or oppressing them? Get the hell out. Gotcha. No more making fun of, belittling, bullying, or opppressing Hitler for me. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-submit-a-simple-question-about-gay-jokes-and-mental-illness/740647/58 "2015-12-19T01:24:59Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Gotcha. No more making fun of, belittling, bullying, or opppressing Hitler for me. Hitler wasn’t such a bad guy. After all, he did kill Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-submit-a-simple-question-about-gay-jokes-and-mental-illness/740647/59 "2015-12-22T03:49:30Z")
> [@DeepLiquid](#): > > The “it’s just words” thing really isn’t true, words have great power. Wouldn’t you mind it if someone started casually referring to you as a child molester in your workplace or social settings? Or if someone said awful things about your/a child? They’d just be using words, no problem? Touche, but there’s a difference between a joke about a specific person and a joke about unknown persons (where celebrities are a free for all). There’s also a difference between a joke and defamation. I don’t tell people their children are ugly, even if they are, but if someone said that about my child I’d probably be okay with it. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-submit-a-simple-question-about-gay-jokes-and-mental-illness/740647/60 "2015-12-23T05:48:17Z")
> [@Abner\_Ravenwood](#): > > But is it okay to convert to Judaism for the jokes? Only if you’re a dentist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-submit-a-simple-question-about-gay-jokes-and-mental-illness/740647.md?page=2)