# I support the cause of the pro-Palestinian protestors **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 27, 2024, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841 "2024-04-27T14:24:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/241 "2024-05-09T01:07:51Z")
Did I say that people shouldn’t help outsiders? No, I did not. I said that one has a greater obligation to their in-group. Acknowledging that different groups of people exist and that one should look out for one’s in-group is not a statement about the superiority or inferiority of any such group, nor does the need to help your in-group mean you cannot also help others or that you must harm others. I am simply saying that it is impossible to help everyone in the world that needs it and that therefore, if aid must be prioritized, it should be directed towards those groups to whom the individual is most closely tied because it is of mutual benefit to one’s society to do so. This is ethics 101, people. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/242 "2024-05-09T01:09:09Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > but those are two things you’re specifically saying Israel doesn’t have to do, because the Palestinians aren’t “their people.” Israel is not obliged to the Palestinians because the Palestinians are their enemy. Do I have to do history 101 now as well? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/243 "2024-05-09T01:09:44Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Israel is not obliged to the Palestinians because the Palestinians are their enemy. Palestinians, _as a race_, are the enemy of Israel? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/244 "2024-05-09T01:11:30Z")
This is post-hoc rationalization bullshit. And it allows Israel to do virtually anything to Gazans, perhaps short of nuking them. You’ve gone beyond tying yourself into knots. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/245 "2024-05-09T01:12:26Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Did I say that people shouldn’t help outsiders? No, I did not. I said that one has a greater obligation to their in-group. Acknowledging that different groups of people exist and that one should look out for one’s in-group is not a statement about the superiority or inferiority of any such group, nor does the need to help your in-group mean you cannot also help others or that you must harm others. I am simply saying that it is impossible to help everyone in the world that needs it and that therefore, if aid must be prioritized, it should be directed towards those groups to whom the individual is most closely tied because it is of mutual benefit to one’s society to do so. > > This is ethics 101, people. So you think white people are more obligated to help suffering white people than suffering black people? ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/246 "2024-05-09T01:14:52Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > if aid must be prioritized, it should be directed towards those groups to whom the individual is most closely tied because it is of mutual benefit to one’s society to do so I tend to lean to toward helping those most in immediate need if possible. But maybe I’ll make sure that none of my “kind” need assistance first (no matter how small) before helping the next white homeless guy I see. I wouldn’t want to damage society after all. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/247 "2024-05-09T01:26:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So you think white people are more obligated to help suffering white people than suffering black people? > [@Miller](#): > > Palestinians, _as a race_, are the enemy of Israel? > [@Chingon](#): > > But maybe I’ll make sure that none of my “kind” need assistance first (no matter how small) before helping the next white homeless guy I see. I wouldn’t want to damage society after all. I’m not the one trying to distill everything down to race. I have mentioned over half a dozen factors that go into identifying in-groups and race or color have not been any of them. You seem to be the ones obsessed with race. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/248 "2024-05-09T01:30:07Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > And it allows Israel to do virtually anything to Gazans, perhaps short of nuking them. Hamas and its puppetmasters in Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and Iran certainly feel justified in doing anything to Israelis. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/249 "2024-05-09T01:36:01Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Hamas and its puppetmasters in Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and Iran certainly feel justified in doing anything to Israelis. All those mentioned feel justified in doing anything to their own people in the name of religion. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/250 "2024-05-09T01:59:20Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Not sure what you expect Hamas to do about that when there is no safe place in Gaza and the IDF is gunning down aid workers and the occasional trio of hostages that managed to get away from Hamas only to be killed by their own side. I expect Hamas to release the hostages. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/251 "2024-05-09T02:47:02Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It is therefore accurate to say that the Arab states share a very strong and indelible cultural connection to the Palestinians, to a similar degree that people of neighboring US states or the constituent countries of the UK share, and as such they have a stronger moral obligation than most others to aid the Palestinian people, in accordance with the Koranic instruction to "do good – to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, those in need, neighbors who are near, neighbors who are strangers, the companion by your side, the wayfarer (ye meet), and what your right hands possess.” (al-Nisaa 4:36) The UAE sends the most aid=27%, followed by Turkey-19%, thern Saudi Arabia- 18% then Qatar (who also helosHamas) with 8%. Also Jordan, Tunisia , Rwanda, India and the EU. Aklso International aid, now the USA is helping with about 2Billion usd. > [@Chisquirrel](#): > > 100-150 trucks a day is not 500-600. There is not enough aid, no matter what Israeli military spokesmen say. [https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/turkiye-ranks-2nd-in-sending-most-humanitarian-aid-to-gaza/3171776#:~:text=Fully%2019%25%20of%20the%20aid,Territories%20(COGAT)%20on%20Thursday](https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/turkiye-ranks-2nd-in-sending-most-humanitarian-aid-to-gaza/3171776#:~:text=Fully%2019%25%20of%20the%20aid,Territories%20(COGAT)%20on%20Thursday). As the NYT said (see cite upthread) _Humanitarian organizations have said that the problem is not a lack of available aid: The United Nations said it has [enough food](https://www.wfp.org/news/famine-imminent-northern-gaza-new-report-warns) at or near Gaza’s border to feed the enclave’s 2.2 million people. Instead, humanitarian workers say they face challenges at every point in the process of delivering aid, through Israel’s security checkpoints and into an active war zone._ > [@Miller](#): > > Palestinians, _as a race_, are the enemy of Israel? No, but neither were the Germans as a people the enemy of the Allies in WW2. Nor the japanese as a people. However, their leadership- and many of the people- committed acts of war and crimes against humanity, so that the German and Japanese people suffered due to their leadership. Also I wouldnt call the palestinians a 'race". I prefer “people”, > [@FinsToTheLeft](#): > > I expect Hamas to release the hostages. Perhaps the dead bodies. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/252 "2024-05-09T02:49:04Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The United Nations said it has [enough food](https://www.wfp.org/news/famine-imminent-northern-gaza-new-report-warns) at or near Gaza’s border to feed the enclave’s 2.2 million people. Instead, humanitarian workers say they face challenges at every point in the process of delivering aid, through Israel’s security checkpoints and into an active war zone. Your own quote says the food is not IN Gaza. Again. ETA: And your cite is paywalled. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/253 "2024-05-09T02:51:56Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Your own quote says the food is not IN Gaza. Again. Yes, and my cite explained why. The food cant get in Gaza as long as Hamas makes it untenable to go in- not to mention the IDF slow rolling the inspections. There is food. Altho the IDF is doing inspections and slowing down the chain- the fact it isnt getting to the hungry people is due to Hamas. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/254 "2024-05-09T02:56:21Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The UAE sends the most aid=27%, followed by Turkey-19%, thern Saudi Arabia- 18% then Qatar (who also helosHamas) with 8%. Also Jordan, Tunisia , Rwanda, India and the EU. Aklso International aid, now the USA is helping with about 2Billion usd. That’s good. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/255 "2024-05-09T03:17:37Z")
Hamas is the one keeping all those trucks on the other side of the border? Because your cite, and yourself, say that it’s Israel. This is one of my big issues with the Gaza/Israel War discussion on the Dope - Israel apparently has no agency. People die to Israeli bombs? Hamas’s fault. People starve because Israel limits aid across the border? Hamas’s fault. Israel kills three escaped hostages who are waving a white flag and retreating to safety? You guessed it, Hamas’s fault. Hamas is puppeteering the IDF and Israeli government and there’s nothing poor Israel can do about it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/256 "2024-05-09T03:26:22Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Onerous inspections- Israel’s fault. But after that- there are too many problems- > _“It’s very hard to reach all people,” said Naser Qadous, who coordinates food assistance in Gaza’s north for Anera, an aid organization. “This is why there are many people that are starving.”_ > > _In Rafah, where aid is somewhat more available, UNRWA’s distribution infrastructure is strained as more than half of Gaza’s population has sought shelter there. Some Gazans are even trading or [selling their aid](https://docs.wfp.org/api/documents/WFP-0000157018/download/?_ga=2.35939040.1942663058.1709922699-2058945398.1706545796), and the prices have become prohibitive for most people, exacerbating the unequal distribution of food supplies._ > > _## Aid convoys are frequently beset by violence_ > > _The threats of desperate crowds and Israeli gunfire make the transfer of food to people dangerous._ > > _The absence of security officers has enabled organized criminal gangs to steal aid or attack convoys, U.S. officials and [Palestinians](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/03/02/world/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news/gaza-aid-convoy-that-ended-in-death-was-part-of-a-new-israeli-operation?smid=url-share) in central and northern Gaza have also said._ > [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Hamas is the one keeping all those trucks on the other side of the border? Because your cite, and yourself, say that it’s Israel. Nope read above. Israel is slowing down the aid via inspections- which iMHO are nessesary. But even so- the aid cant get to the people. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/257 "2024-05-09T20:54:55Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The Palestinian nation is part of an ethocultural group commonly called “Arabs”, a Caucasian people of Semitic descent having its origins in the Arabian Peninsula. Most of the states neighboring the lands in which the Palestinians dwell, including Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and Saudi Arabia, are also primarily populated by Arabs. These people share a cultural identify defined by thousands of years of tradition, 1500 years of Islamic philosophy, Ottoman hegemony, and the occupation and partitioning of their lands by the Great Powers in the aftermath of the world wars. They additionally share a common language, a common religion, and common cultural artifacts of Ottoman origin - e.g. the moon-and-star symbol of the Ottoman empire which has been adopted as a pan-Islamic symbol, and foods of Ottoman origin which remain popular throughout the region. Furthermore, prior to 1967 the areas in which the Palestinians dwell were under the military control of Egypt and Jordan. You display _some_ knowledge of the peoples you refer to. Let me just clarify a couple of things. Semitic people is no longer used, the term being archaic1. Were we to use that term, then Hebrews would be among them. I dislike the word ethnicity2 to a certain extent. For the sake of this post I’ll use it to refer to different peoples. Ethnic Egyptians, for example, have been shown to have close DNA with the ancient Egyptians (i.e. pyramid builders), something that racist and quasi racist have a hard time dealing with3. Moroccans, Algerians and Libyans are of Maghreb ethnicity. I could go on, but the point is that these people are NOT all Arabs, not even the Palestinians4. They share a language in Arabic. To an extent. A Moroccan using their Arabic vernacular would have a hard time understanding an Iraqi who is using their vernacular. If they want to communicate, they shift to ‘High Arabic’, which - in my understanding - is how people read the Quran, sort of how Latin used to be lingua franca a thousand years ago in Europe. The culture between different groups vary wildly. The Islamization in the 7th century made for some common ground, but to say it’s all the same from the Atlantic to the Persian Gulf is like saying all Christians in the U.S. share the same culture. There’s the American identity but there’s no way that Southern Baptists and Boston Catholics are basically the same culture, in the way you try to describe MENA. If you want to boost your claims by quoting a Surah (It’s An-Nisa, btw) I can do the same with the Tanakh. “Do not oppress a foreigner; you yourselves know how it feels to be foreigners, because you were foreigners in Egypt.” _Exodus 23:9_ “And if a stranger dwells with you in your land, you shall not mistreat him. The stranger who dwells among you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.” _Leviticus.19.33-34_ * * * 1 [Link.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people#) 2 It seems to be a way to nebulously refer to race in some discourses 3 e.g. “Those towel heads? Building the pyramids. Bwaha” 4 The Levant has always been a crossroad and thus it has been trampled on, conquered, claimed, fought over since at least the bronze age and probably longer. Palestinians have some Arab DNA, other traces are from the Philistines (who are possibly the same as the Sea Peoples who in turn maybe came from the Aegean), the ancient Israelites (maybe not the Judeans, though). None of this is surprising, since every ‘great’ empire has raped and pillaged in the region ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2024, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/258 "2024-05-24T15:28:50Z")
I stumbled across this tweet on X, which I felt really did an amazing job of summing up how I feel about the so-called “pro-Palestinian” movement. Surprisingly, it comes from a pro-Palestinian activist who grew up in Gaza. [https://x.com/afalkhatib/status/1782241783843553568](https://x.com/afalkhatib/status/1782241783843553568) Actually, I don’t really find that very surprising at all. I think the “pro-Palestinian” movement, in its current form, is not actually very pro-Palestinian at all; it is against Israel, and against what it views as Western Imperialism, but that doesn’t mean you are _for_ anything. So it isn’t too surprising to me that two people who want the same outcome - peaceful coexistence in two states - would want the same sorts of things. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2024, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/259 "2024-05-24T21:09:11Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Actually, I don’t really find that very surprising at all. I think the “pro-Palestinian” movement, in its current form, is not actually very pro-Palestinian at all; it is against Israel, and against what it views as Western Imperialism, but that doesn’t mean you are _for_ anything. Yep. “From the River to the Sea” means- Israel ceases to exist- and of course as an added benefit- lots of Jews also. Anti-semitism has risen 360% in colleges. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2024, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/260 "2024-05-24T23:19:50Z")
That’s quite a specific percentage. Of course, you’d have a cite for that claim, no? Meanwhile, what’s left of Gaza, vs what’s left of Hamas? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841.md?page=14)