# I support the cause of the pro-Palestinian protestors **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 27, 2024, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841 "2024-04-27T14:24:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/41 "2024-05-02T12:52:26Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > You can’t simultaneously maintain that Israel has a right to exist, and that Israel’s safety requires indefinitely continuing to deny Palestine’s right to exist. I’ll even go further and say that Israel’s security _requires_ a Palestinian state to exist. Because at the end of the day, unless Israel wants to actually _do_ the things that ignirant college kids insist it _is_ doing, we will need to make peace with the Palestinians, and to do that you need someone who is actually in charge there, and you need people who have a path to a prosperous life so they have reason to buy into the social system, etc. Long story short, Palestine needs to be a stable and prosperous place for Palestinians even by the most cynical and practical assessment from the Israeli perspective, because that’s the only way to secure a lasting peace. If someone started chanting that “Israel must be safe from the [Mountain](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Hermon) to the [Reef](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eilat%27s_Coral_Beach)” I highly doubt that you would conclude that clearly, he is speaking of a prosperous and safe two state solution. So this situation isn’t what the protestors are talking about. I consider any enemy of a two state solution to be an enemy of peace. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/42 "2024-05-02T12:54:05Z")
And you don’t see a problem there? Really? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/43 "2024-05-02T12:59:41Z")
What do you mean, “don’t see a problem”? How is it possibly not a problem that Israelis and Palestinians want to live on the same land, to which they can both claim ancestral rights? Is there anybody at all who doesn’t recognize that that is the problem, fundamentally? But the problem cannot be validly resolved by insisting on the Israelis’ claims and denying and ignoring the Palestinians’. Palestinians have just as much right to self-determination and sovereignty as Israelis do. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/44 "2024-05-02T13:02:59Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > “…their ancestral lands”. > > Where are those, _exactly_? > [@Kimstu](#): > > Same place the Israelis’ are. > [@Alessan](#): > > And you don’t see a problem there? Really?. If both sides can accept sovereignty over parts of their ancestral homeland, but not the whole thing, then we can have two prosperous countries living in peace. (And a hundred years from now these countries may be so closely aligned economically and socially that people from both sides have no issues freely living in the other nation’s borders, much like in the EU - the most realistic path I see to a “right of return”). Or we can continue down the path of revanchism that we started down on Nov 30, 1947 when the UN partition plan was rejected by (one of) the sides. I can tell you which side calls for “River to the Sea” are on, that’s for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/45 "2024-05-02T13:08:20Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > But the problem cannot be validly resolved by insisting on the Israelis’ claims and denying and ignoring the Palestinians’. Palestinians have just as much right to self-determination and sovereignty as Israelis do. You can’t have two sovereign nations on the same land. If you want to discuss a two-state solution, with the Palestinian state being behind the Green Line, we have something to talk about. But if there’s just going to be one state here, it’s going to be Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/46 "2024-05-02T13:19:13Z")
But is it _land_ that they _really_ want? Let’s say, hypothetically, Israel gave them some of the land they supposedly want. I am fully confident that, afterwards, their goal would be… the destruction of Israel. Based on their words and action over the past many decades, the destruction of Israel seems to be their one, true, goal, regardless of anything else. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/47 "2024-05-02T17:15:40Z")
Biden recently spoke about the protests, condemning violence and hate speech: > **['Violent protest is not protected,' Biden says of college campus unrest](https://news.yahoo.com/biden-speaking-campus-protests-says-150900576.html)** > > President Joe Biden on Thursday spoke from the White House on college protests happening across the nation in connection with the Israel-Hamas war. After he made his prepared remarks and was leaving, he turned around to answer a question shouted by one of the reporters: > When asked if the protests have made him reconsider his policies in the region, Biden said “no.” ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/48 "2024-05-02T18:09:58Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > When asked if the protests have made him reconsider his policies in the region, Biden said “no.” And yet he already has stated changes to his initial stated policy. Picking out individual statements only further muddies the picture. There is so much of the story of the [Blind Men and the Elephant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant) here. It’s easy to look at this issue from just one aspect and ignore everything else about it. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/49 "2024-05-02T19:36:38Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > And do you imagine Hamas would then let Israel live in peace? > [@Kimstu](#): > > What’s that got to do with it? Hamas is the elected government of the Palestinian people. Don’t want none? Don’t start none. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/50 "2024-05-02T19:54:12Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Hamas is the elected government of the Palestinian people. Not by any common understanding of the words ‘elected’, ‘of’, or the phrase ‘the Palestinian people’. Even ‘government’ isn’t quite clear either. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/51 "2024-05-02T19:56:47Z")
> **[Poll: Hamas Remains Popular Among Palestinians](https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/03/22/poll-hamas-remains-popular-among-palestinians/)** > > Palestinian support for Hamas in the West Bank and Gaza remains high, according to a Palestinian poll released on March 20. That support has increased since the Iran-backed terrorist... > [@](#): > > Seventy-one percent of all Palestinians supported Hamas’s decision to attack Israel on October 7 — up 14 points among Gazans and down 11 points among West Bank Palestinians compared to three months ago. Fifty-nine percent of all Palestinians thought Hamas should rule Gaza, and 70 percent were satisfied with the role Hamas has played during the war. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/52 "2024-05-02T20:05:44Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > But if there’s just going to be one state here, it’s going to be Israel And why is that necessarily true? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/53 "2024-05-02T20:06:05Z")
That’s not what you said. I agree the support for Hamas is greater than some describe. As I stated above there’s going to be hardcore support and a gradation of the level across the wider population. Gazans have long felt apart from the West Bank. So there’s no question they’d prefer their own government\* and they have a long antipathy to Israel and Hamas represents them in that sense. That doesn’t mean they’d choose the current Hamas leadership if they had anything like a choice. \*One reason a two-state solution is nonsense is there are 3 states fighting over who has dibs on the land. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/54 "2024-05-02T20:44:11Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > And why is that necessarily true? Because we have nukes. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/55 "2024-05-02T20:54:22Z")
So did South Africa. Although I guess they voluntarily got rid of them before apartheid ended. Maybe that’s what’s needed here. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/56 "2024-05-02T21:00:04Z")
Nah, I think we’ll keep them. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/57 "2024-05-02T21:18:23Z")
The implicit threat of “We’ll nuke the Palestinians to protect ourselves” is…well, an idea, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/58 "2024-05-02T21:37:17Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Because we have nukes I was asking a serious question. Do you have a different, serious response, or was that it? ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/59 "2024-05-02T21:40:28Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > I was asking a serious question. Do you have a different, serious response, or was that it? The obvious answer is that Israel is much more military powerful than Hamas. If Israel wanted to impose a one state solution by force of arms, there’s nothing to stop them, even without nukes. Hamas has no such option. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/60 "2024-05-02T21:44:29Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > The obvious answer is that Israel is much more military powerful than Hamas. If Israel wanted to impose a one state solution by force of arms, there’s nothing to stop them, even without nukes. Hamas has no such option Absolutely correct, except that my question was about Israel apparently having first dibs on the land over Palestine, not Hamas. I am curious to see if @Alessan has a serious answer vis a vis Israel or Palestine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841.md?page=4)