# I support the cause of the pro-Palestinian protestors **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 27, 2024, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841 "2024-04-27T14:24:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2024, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/81 "2024-05-03T16:16:08Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > The idea is that you cannot actually _use_ nuclear weapons, certainly not in a madman “we’ll kill everyone” global thermonuclear war or other suicidal scenario, but that their existence might deter someone from marching a couple dozen divisions into your territory, by ensuring peace talks supervene. That’s an interesting read given the discussion started with > But if there’s just going to be one state here, it’s going to be Israel That certainly implies there won’t be any Palestinians. And why? > Because we have nukes. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2024, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/82 "2024-05-03T16:18:47Z")
I hope so, and I hope your government becomes a partner for peace, rather than what seems (to this outsider) like a de facto Hamas ally in their efforts for perpetual bloodshed. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2024, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/83 "2024-05-03T16:23:04Z")
Looking back at history, Pharaohs and all, I can’t argue against something David Mamet wrote: “nobody gives a damn about the Jews except the Jews.” But I can argue against that meaning they are free to not give a damn about anyone but themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2024, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/84 "2024-05-03T16:29:08Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > That’s an interesting read given the discussion started with > > > But if there’s just going to be one state here, it’s going to be Israel > > That certainly implies there won’t be any Palestinians. And why? > > > Because we have nukes. Apparently you missed the part that says “IF”. We are fully open to there being two states here. That’s why we have, again and again, come to the table offering a two state solution. Some people apparently think that if they keep rejecting these offers, then they will get rid of us, and they won’t have to deal with any more uppity Jews in Israel. That has certainly been the attitude of the Palestinian leadership since 1947. It hasn’t worked out very well for them, and for the reasons outlined by @Alessan, it will continue not to work. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2024, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/85 "2024-05-03T17:12:44Z")
What gives you the idea I missed “if”? Because I moved past it to kill all the Palestinians as an implicit threat, until I was corrected that it actually meant kill everyone? While it’s certainly a very, very last resort, it’s apparently a serious consideration. When West Bank settlers stop being defended by the IDF, when Bibi, who repeatedly states a two-state solution will not happen, stops being put in power, when polls of Israelis don’t result in a plurality saying a two-state solution will not happen, I’ll believe Israel is serious about a two-state solution. So please, keep saying Israel supports a two-state solution when they pretty clearly intend to never actually do so. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2024, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/86 "2024-05-03T17:30:03Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > So please, keep saying Israel supports a two-state solution when they pretty clearly intend to never actually do so. Gee, I wonder why many in the Israeli public don’t believe a two state solution will happen, when Palestinians have rejected our offers so many times. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2024, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/87 "2024-05-03T17:34:56Z")
It’s not believing it won’t happen, it’s actively stating they don’t want it. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2024, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/88 "2024-05-03T17:36:09Z")
I have no doubt that Israel will get through this, as bad as the October attack was Hamas was never an existential threat to the state of Israel as a whole. The question is what will be left of the Palestinians when they do. It appears that Netanyahu goals regarding the Palestinians is to bomb it into the stone age, kill 5-10% of their population and then wall it off and forget about it in the hopes that the Palestinians will be too busy trying to find shelter and food for their children to organize another attack against them. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2024, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/89 "2024-05-03T19:15:09Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Netanyahu goals regarding the Palestinians is to bomb it into the stone age …and to help boost recruitment for Hamas. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2024, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/90 "2024-05-03T19:45:42Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > We are fully open to there being two states here. That’s why we have, again and again, come to the table offering a two state solution. YOU are open to that. Some other Israelis are open to that. Not everyone is open to that and you have government officials calling for ethnic cleansing, so I presume they are not open to a two-state solution even as other government members are. I have never had a desire to visit Israel (even though I have been told more than once that I should, as a Jew, go there). I have no intention of visiting until this on-going nastiness is sorted out so… I doubt I will ever go there because I do not anticipate actual peace there in my lifetime. I’ll note that I would be _happy_ to be proven wrong on that. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2024, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/91 "2024-05-03T19:53:24Z")
> **[Middle East Crisis: Hamas Resists Israel’s Latest Cease-Fire Offer](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/05/01/world/israel-gaza-war-hamas)** > > The U.S. secretary of state is on a tour of the Middle East to press for a cease-fire deal, but a Hamas spokesman said the group could not accept the latest Israeli proposal without changes. _The U.S. secretary of state is on a tour of the Middle East to press for a cease-fire deal, but a Hamas spokesman said the group could not accept the latest Israeli proposal without changes._ _Hamas says its position is ‘negative’ on Israel’s offer but signals willingness to keep talking._ _]([https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/05/01/world/israel-gaza-war-hamas#blinken-hamas-israel-cease-fire](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/05/01/world/israel-gaza-war-hamas#blinken-hamas-israel-cease-fire))_ Most outside parties say that this ceasefire offer was even “generous” for the Gazans. If reasonable and generous ceasefire offers are rejected- does Hamas really want a ceasefire? Remember- Israel cant do a ceasefire unilaterally. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2024, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/92 "2024-05-03T19:55:20Z")
Hamas is essentially a death cult. But 2 million Gazans shouldn’t suffer so terribly because a death cult is nominally in control right now, and that death cult’s enabler (and de-facto ally, IMO) is in charge of the Israeli government. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2024, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/93 "2024-05-03T20:11:06Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > YOU are open to that. Some other Israelis are open to that. Not everyone is open to that and you have government officials calling for ethnic cleansing, so I presume they are not open to a two-state solution even as other government members are. Sure. And I’ve made my stance on anyone who opposes a two state solution clear, I hope. Whether they are Israeli, Palestinian, or American college students. The fact remains that Israel _ **has** _ offered the two state deal, multiple times, and always been rejected, and violently so. I’m sure you can understand why that might make the two state solution an unpopular one to campaign on. Nevertheless, it is the only available solution, and the serious politicians all know that. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2024, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/94 "2024-05-03T20:11:47Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Remember- Israel cant do a ceasefire unilaterally. That’s exactly what many people are asking Israel to do. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2024, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/95 "2024-05-03T20:36:52Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > appears that Netanyahu goals regarding the Palestinians is to bomb it into the stone age, kill 5-10% of their population… As long as the mantra is that it is the responsibility of Palestinians to unelect Hamas, but Israelis don’t bear responsibility for Netanyahu until aftet the war is neatly wrapped up. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2024, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/96 "2024-05-03T20:38:13Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > As long as thae mantra is that it is the responsibility of Palestinians to unelect Hamas, but Israelis don’t bear responsibility for Netanyahu until aftet the war is neatly wrapped up. It is the responsibility of Hams to accept generous ceasefire offers. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2024, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/97 "2024-05-03T20:44:29Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > As long as the mantra is that it is the responsibility of Palestinians to unelect Hamas, but Israelis don’t bear responsibility for Netanyahu until aftet the war is neatly wrapped up. There are a billion reasons to remove Netanyahu, and most of them have to do with his corruption and pandering to the religious right. But I don’t see a reason to remove him _due to his actions during this war_. (His actions leading up to and causing Oct 7, yes). What exactly do you think a different Israeli prime minister would be able to do to force Hamas to accept the very generous terms they have been offered? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2024, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/98 "2024-05-03T20:44:31Z")
After Oct. 7, when Israel said they were going after Hamas, no one had a problem with that. It seemed like just the thing! But for anyone to be surprised at the reactions around the globe that Israel’s method of attack was to mow down the people of Gaza, seems like intentional blinders about the eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2024, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/99 "2024-05-03T20:49:29Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Israel’s method of attack was to mow down the people of Gaza, If that was Israel’s method of attack, the war would be long over and there wouldn’t be anything left of Gaza. > [@bobot](#): > > seems like intentional blinders about the eyes. Expecting urban warfare in a place like Gaza against a group lile Hamas to look any different than this seems hopelessly naive. There’s a _reason_ why Israel has refused to invade Gaza previously, for lesser provocations than Oct 7. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2024, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/100 "2024-05-03T20:50:00Z")
And to state it, I’m not any happier about the United States’ actions in Iraq, after Iraq had nothing to do with Sept. 11. Let’s maybe see Hamas leadership pay a price already. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841.md?page=6)