# I support the cause of the pro-Palestinian protestors **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 27, 2024, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841 "2024-04-27T14:24:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2024, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/141 "2024-05-05T14:39:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Netanyahu and his allies are as much to blame for this situation as Hamas. I mean, that’s what I was getting at here: > [@Babale](#): > > Unfortunately we have been on a catastrophic path since the decisions that allowed Hamas to come to power and then entranch themselves in Gazan society were made. Most of those decisions were Netanyahu’s. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2024, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/142 "2024-05-05T14:43:53Z")
Then how can you not agree that, with Netanyahu and his allies in charge, any success is impossible? That the war will continue to fail and fail again for Israel until they step down? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2024, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/143 "2024-05-05T14:55:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Then how can you not agree that, with Netanyahu and his allies in charge, any success is impossible? That the war will continue to fail and fail again for Israel until they step down?. These are two separate questions. Can the IDF defeat Hamas in Gaza and clear the way for someone else - Israel, a coalition, the Palestinian Authority, Martians if they’re willing to do it - to take over? Yes, I am confident in that, regardless of who is in charge of the civilian government. (Well, if the civilian government started firing officers who disagreed with Netanyahu for petty political reasons, for example, they could mess up the IDF sufficiently to prevent this; but Netanyahu doesn’t have absolute control, not even close). Can Netanyahu’s government take the political steps to secure friendly administration of Gaza and to put us back on the path to a two state solution? Well, it’s probably _capable_ of this, but that’s not what Netanyahu or his zealot cronies are going to pursue. Which is why I fully agree, they need to be removed. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2024, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/144 "2024-05-05T15:10:23Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > The world doesn’t give a shit. Not about us, not about the Palestinians, and not about any of the people who are _actuallly_ being genocided every day without any of us in the West hearing about it. > > Israel exists _precisely_ so that when someone starts massacaring us, we can do something about it; we don’t need to wait for the world to decide that actually, destroying the Nazis is in their own self-interest. And what’s to happen when Israel starts to massacre someone else? It’s shameful that Israel has at all begun to resemble the oppressors they have feared. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2024, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/145 "2024-05-05T15:22:55Z")
I don’t think the IDF is nearly that capable. I guess we’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2024, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/146 "2024-05-05T15:25:46Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > shameful that Israel has at all begun to resemble the oppressors they have feared. That’s certainly not something we want to see happen. One of the people I favor for the next election, Yair Golan (who is currently campaigning for the Labor party primary), made exactly that point when talking about cracking down on bad behavior within the IDF. He even compare the perpetrators of some incidents to Nazis, which he got some heat for from the Right. And he compared violent settlers to Hamas terrorists. Again, something that made him a target on the Right, but something he was right to do. For all the reasons I’ve listed over and over, I don’t think the decision to go into Gaza or the fact that urban warfare against an entranched terrorist group leads to high civilian casualties is evidence of that kind of misdoing. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2024, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/147 "2024-05-05T16:05:55Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > For all the reasons I’ve listed over and over, I don’t think the decision to go into Gaza or the fact that urban warfare against an entranched terrorist group leads to high civilian casualties is evidence of that kind of misdoing. The court of public opinion doesn’t have high standards for evidence. What has happened already and no sign of reconsideration by Israel looks pretty bad. You don’t believe Israel can make this right yourself, why should anyone believe the future holds anything but continued strife and death in the future? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2024, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/148 "2024-05-05T16:30:08Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The court of public opinion doesn’t have high standards for evidence Especially when it comes to Jews. > [@TriPolar](#): > > What has happened already and no sign of reconsideration by Israel looks pretty bad Did I miss something? As far as I know Hamas has not released the hostages or agreed to sane terms. What exactly are we supposed to reconsider? > [@TriPolar](#): > > You don’t believe Israel can make this right yourself Say what? I don’t think I said that. > [@TriPolar](#): > > why should anyone believe the future holds anything but continued strife and death in the future? The future holds whatever we make of it. Revanchism is a good way to ensure that the future does hold nothing but continued strife and death. A two state solution is a different path. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2024, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/149 "2024-05-05T17:10:57Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > > [@TriPolar](#): > > > > You don’t believe Israel can make this right yourself > > Say what? I don’t think I said that. I should have stated it better. I was referring to the following, I did not mean to imply any more than what you said there. > [@Babale](#): > > Can Netanyahu’s government take the political steps to secure friendly administration of Gaza and to put us back on the path to a two state solution? Well, it’s probably _capable_ of this, but that’s not what Netanyahu or his zealot cronies are going to pursue. Which is why I fully agree, they need to be removed. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2024, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/150 "2024-05-05T18:39:13Z")
“JERUSALEM/DOHA, May 5 (Reuters) - Israeli authorities raided a Jerusalem hotel room used by Al Jazeera as its office after the government decided to shut down the Qatari-owned TV station’s local operations on Sunday, an Israeli official and an Al Jazeera source told Reuters.” [https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-cabinet-moves-close-al-jazeeras-local-operations-2024-05-05/](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-cabinet-moves-close-al-jazeeras-local-operations-2024-05-05/) Sure. Why not? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2024, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/151 "2024-05-05T18:52:05Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Sure. Why not? I’m sure you are equally upset about the European countries that have banned [Russia Today](https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/eu-court-backs-eu-ban-russia-today-2022-07-27/) or SputnikTV. Maybe if the Qataris stop hosting senior Hamas leadership we can let their propaganda rag back into the country. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2024, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/152 "2024-05-05T18:54:08Z")
I haven’t known Al Jazeera to be propaganda. Speaking of Hamas leadership, isn’t Netanyahu supposed to be taking them out? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2024, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/153 "2024-05-05T19:02:12Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Speaking of Hamas leadership, isn’t Netanyahu supposed to be taking them out? Netanyahu is a old fuck who sits in his office or runs up north for a “vacation” when he doesn’t want to face the press. The IDF has been taking out Hamas leaders left and right, though not the ones staying at fancy Qatari hotels paid for with “humanitarian aid” money. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2024, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/154 "2024-05-05T19:04:01Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > I haven’t known Al Jazeera to be propaganda. You may not know this, but Al Jazeera is Qatari state media. Much like Russia Today or SputnikTV. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2024, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/155 "2024-05-05T19:12:50Z")
Well I hope you can see why it seems that people not from Israel are tired of it. You know how the U.S went into Pakistan without invitation to take care of Bin Laden? That’s what Israel has to do. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2024, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/156 "2024-05-05T19:15:42Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > You may not know this, but Al Jazeera is Qatari state media. For that- it is not as biased as one would think. Of course it _is_ biased, but it is not- by any means- junk journalism. It’d say it is better than the NY Post. ---
**Author:** ![Kyomara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8edcca/32.png) [@Kyomara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyomara)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2024, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/157 "2024-05-06T03:23:18Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Yes, I agree, a punitive expedition into Gaza is not gonna be beneficial in the long term. So…Israel is now murdering tens of thousands of innocent people for no long-term benefit? And you support this? > [@Babale](#): > > Especially when it comes to Jews. The fact that Israel is Jewish state is not the most significant thing in this conflict compared to other examples of similar oppression, and when you say “the only reason people are mad at Israel for doing awful things is that they’re Jewish,” you admit that you know the things Israel is doing are awful. And you support it. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2024, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/158 "2024-05-06T04:38:43Z")
Two straw men knocked down with one post. Very efficient. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2024, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/159 "2024-05-06T05:12:19Z")
> [@Kyomara](#): > > So…Israel is now murdering tens of thousands of innocent people for no long-term benefit? You left out the sentence immediately after that one which clearly shows Babale is saying the opposite of the words you’re putting in their mouth (emphasis mine); > [@Babale](#): > > Yes, I agree, a punitive expedition into Gaza is not gonna be beneficial in the long term. Gaza needs to be administrated by someone other than Hamas when all is said and done. > [@Kyomara](#): > > The fact that Israel is Jewish state is not the most significant thing in this conflict compared to other examples of similar oppression, and when you say “the only reason people are mad at Israel for doing awful things is that they’re Jewish,” you admit that you know the things Israel is doing are awful. And you support it. Name a country that isn’t doing “awful things”, because I’d sure like to move to this Utopia. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2024, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841/160 "2024-05-06T11:38:31Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > If people haven’t seen this three-minute classic piece of commentary, I hope they’ll give it a try: Excellent. And sums up precisely why I think at this point the US should not be involved really at all. Offer to mediate if asked, refuse direct involvement. Too many in the conflict don’t really want it resolved in a way I want any part of. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-support-the-cause-of-the-pro-palestinian-protestors/1000841.md?page=9)