# I suppose one way to fight back against government eavesdropping . . . **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 13, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-suppose-one-way-to-fight-back-against-government-eavesdropping/660898 "2013-06-13T14:28:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-suppose-one-way-to-fight-back-against-government-eavesdropping/660898/21 "2013-06-14T11:46:17Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > It was popular for people to include a list of imagined terroristic-sounding keywords in their sigs. The Emacs command “M-x spook” would insert a couple of dozen these words into your post automatically. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-suppose-one-way-to-fight-back-against-government-eavesdropping/660898/22 "2013-06-14T12:02:28Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > you’d also be subjecting your “participants” to unwanted scrutiny at unpredictable intervals and at times when they might not actually be able to defend themselves given that they might not know what specifically got them flagged in the first place. Defend themselves from . . .? ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-suppose-one-way-to-fight-back-against-government-eavesdropping/660898/23 "2013-06-14T17:19:54Z")
Not only would this plan be a huge waste of time, but it would ultimately be counterproductive. It would work IF you could get a substantial fraction of Americans involved and they’d have to do enough so that their own actual signal of communications that would make outside of the plan is drowned by their artificial signal, otherwise, they’re doing little to actually infere. Regard it would ultimately have the opposite problem of strengthening the connections between the people involved. Consider that you start an internet campaign to do this. The first people to get involved would be you and the people you know, calling people they know and getting them involved, thus strengthening the connections with you all. Even if it grows large enough that people you don’t know get involved, they’re people that are still part of the network of people that would get involved in such a campaign. In reality, what you think is “random” noise, really isn’t because someone has to volunteer their information and someone else has to volunteer to contact it. If you want to try to do a noise approach to fighting back, you’d need to have a way to randomly generate contact information, which isn’t that hard with wardialing or generating email lists, but then you’d still need a substantial number of people to randomly use those lists. And, that would end up being as intrusive to the random people you’re contacting as spam, perhaps worse because now they’re potentially tied into that network unwillingly. So, really, the best way to fight back is to stay off the grid as much as possible and provide as little contact information to them as possible because that will be what ultimately will make building the networks the most difficult. Or, better yet, get the government to unfund it by writing your congressmen and using your vote. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-suppose-one-way-to-fight-back-against-government-eavesdropping/660898/24 "2013-06-14T17:27:04Z")
> [@Valgard](#): > > If I had the email and cell numbers of Al-Qaeda I’d be publicizing them all over the place. I’m interested in how much Evil Terrorist Stuff they could get up to when their inboxes are full of 419 and penis pill spam and their phones are constantly ringing asking about the dozen pizzas that they ordered, debt-collection firms looking for deadbeats and the 700 Club asking if they want to be saved. Yeah, I was thinking of adding that this would be a bonus to such an operation, but since I specified suspected Al-Qaeda operatives, it seemed just as likely that they would be pestering some poor schlub with a fondness for mid-eastern food. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-suppose-one-way-to-fight-back-against-government-eavesdropping/660898/25 "2013-06-14T17:38:07Z")
> [@LeeshaJoy](#): > > Is there any conceivable scenario where it _doesn’t_ turn ugly? More details, please, I’m pitching ideas to the studio on Monday. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-suppose-one-way-to-fight-back-against-government-eavesdropping/660898/26 "2013-06-14T17:40:02Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The first dozen or so that tried this would get slapped _hard_ as an example to others, and it would die down damnquick. On what pretext? It is no crime to discuss an imaginary crime over the telephone. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-suppose-one-way-to-fight-back-against-government-eavesdropping/660898/27 "2013-06-14T17:58:18Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > This would be a really dumb plan. > > As a reality check, there are actual criminals and terrorists in the world. I’m going to assume that the NSA has obtained some useful information through its spying. > > Which does not, however, justify the spying. I fully support Constitutional limits on government spying. Heck, in a thread earlier this week, I was questioning whether fingerprinting was unconstitutional. > > So here’s why the OP’s suggestion is bad. It would do nothing to stop the spying which is the problem. But it would stop any benefits we gain from that spying. It would take a program that’s 99.99% bad and remove only the one hundredth of one percent of it that’s good. This. Plus, I could imagine this leading to the government becoming convinced they need to step up their efforts and do more effective (i.e. intrusive) spying, to weed out the genuine threats from the trolls. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-suppose-one-way-to-fight-back-against-government-eavesdropping/660898/28 "2013-06-14T18:01:43Z")
> [@Valgard](#): > > If I had the email and cell numbers of Al-Qaeda I’d be publicizing them all over the place. I’m interested in how much Evil Terrorist Stuff they could get up to when their inboxes are full of 419 and penis pill spam and their phones are constantly ringing asking about the dozen pizzas that they ordered, debt-collection firms looking for deadbeats and the 700 Club asking if they want to be saved. Of course, it is always very easy to get a **new** email address and cell-phone number. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-suppose-one-way-to-fight-back-against-government-eavesdropping/660898/29 "2013-06-14T19:40:02Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Back in 2008, I tried something like this as an attempt to prove to associates of mine that the government doesn’t listen to such things. > > Three weeks later, two Secret Service agents showed up at my place of business, interviewed, photographed, and fingerprinted me, and gave me a stern lecture about not wasting their time and never even thinking of doing anything like that ever again. Is this a joke, or did it really happen? And if so, could you provide more details, like what exactly you did, and what the Secret Service agents were upset about? It sounds like quite a story. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-suppose-one-way-to-fight-back-against-government-eavesdropping/660898/30 "2013-06-14T21:12:19Z")
> [@Bruce\_Wayne](#): > > Can you elaborate carefully? I’m interested. > [@chorpler](#): > > Is this a joke, or did it really happen? And if so, could you provide more details, like what exactly you did, and what the Secret Service agents were upset about? It sounds like quite a story. I was in a chatroom on AOL and the conversation had turned to “The government is reading everything we’re typing right now”. I disagreed with this assertion. In an attempt to prove that the claim was not so, I made statements which implied that I intended to commit bodily harm against a person who is afforded protection by the Secret Service, my intent being to demonstrate that if the government was listening in, then they’d hunt me down and get me. According to the agent who interviewed me, they _weren’t_ listening in on AOL chatrooms - but someone who was in the room at the time had reported my statements to AOL, which passed them on to the Secret Service. The agent informed me that she didn’t believe I was a threat, and that the information they’d gathered would be passed on to the US Attorney who would decide whether I should face any charges. That was the last I heard of the matter, so I assume I’m in the clear. What the agent told me at the end of the interview was basically a very polite form of “We have to investigate everyone who says things like this, and we really hate having to spend our days talking to people like you instead of chasing down people who would actually be a threat, so don’t do it again if you know what’s good for you.” So… I guess I was right? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-suppose-one-way-to-fight-back-against-government-eavesdropping/660898/31 "2013-06-14T22:08:37Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I was in a chatroom on AOL and the conversation had turned to “The government is reading everything we’re typing right now”. I disagreed with this assertion. In an attempt to prove that the claim was not so, I made statements which implied that I intended to commit bodily harm against a person who is afforded protection by the Secret Service, my intent being to demonstrate that if the government was listening in, then they’d hunt me down and get me. > > According to the agent who interviewed me, they _weren’t_ listening in on AOL chatrooms - but someone who was in the room at the time had reported my statements to AOL, which passed them on to the Secret Service. The agent informed me that she didn’t believe I was a threat, and that the information they’d gathered would be passed on to the US Attorney who would decide whether I should face any charges. That was the last I heard of the matter, so I assume I’m in the clear. What the agent told me at the end of the interview was basically a very polite form of “We have to investigate everyone who says things like this, and we really hate having to spend our days talking to people like you instead of chasing down people who would actually be a threat, so don’t do it again if you know what’s good for you.” > > So… I guess I was right? Ah, but if they got a thousand such cases a day, what could they do then with any of them? ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-suppose-one-way-to-fight-back-against-government-eavesdropping/660898/32 "2013-06-14T22:37:45Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Defend themselves from . . .? Being prosecuted either for being a terrorist that they’re not or from being the obstructionist they might actually be. It is illegal to deliberately interfere with a police investigation in any way. Deliberately feeding the police false information about a crime, real or not, is illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-suppose-one-way-to-fight-back-against-government-eavesdropping/660898/33 "2013-06-14T22:49:07Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Ah, but if they got a thousand such cases a day, what could they do then with any of them? They’d asked for more money and I expect they’d get it. And that’s not PRISM anyway. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-suppose-one-way-to-fight-back-against-government-eavesdropping/660898/34 "2013-06-15T01:49:34Z")
I think this is just about the best time to go for the super cynical solution: Get a congress critter to propose a bill to use the spy systems to look for money laundering, tax evasion and other financial issues inside the banks and Wall Street. I think we will get whiplash by the sudden change of course that will be demanded by the powerful once they are affected more directly. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-suppose-one-way-to-fight-back-against-government-eavesdropping/660898/35 "2013-06-15T02:24:33Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > Being prosecuted either for being a terrorist that they’re not or from being the obstructionist they might actually be. It is illegal to deliberately interfere with a police investigation in any way. Deliberately feeding the police false information about a crime, real or not, is illegal. Oh, I’d **love** to see them try to make a case that discussing an imaginary crime in a private telephone conversation is an instance of that! ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-suppose-one-way-to-fight-back-against-government-eavesdropping/660898/36 "2013-06-15T03:22:18Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > Being prosecuted either for being a terrorist that they’re not or from being the obstructionist they might actually be. It is illegal to deliberately interfere with a police investigation in any way. Deliberately feeding the police false information about a crime, real or not, is illegal. In which part of the judiciary are you employed? ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-suppose-one-way-to-fight-back-against-government-eavesdropping/660898/37 "2013-06-15T04:57:03Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > . . . would be an Internet campaign to get millions of people to call and email and text each other and discuss completely imaginary conspiracies to rob, murder, assassinate, bomb, etc. Making it impossible for the eavesdroppers to treat every such instance seriously, which in practice makes it impossible for them to treat any seriously, which defeats the whole purpose. > > And it would be fun. > > But there are many conceivable scenarios where it might turn ugly. Naww, that all sounds like a lot of work. I recommend the **xkcd** approach: [Big Brother Realizes He’s Trapped in the Most Tedious Possible Hell](http://xkcd.com/1223/) You can’t stop them from watching you - but you _can_ make them watch you play ascii rogue-likes while picking your nose for 16 hours straight. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-suppose-one-way-to-fight-back-against-government-eavesdropping/660898/38 "2013-06-15T18:23:36Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Ah, but if they got a thousand such cases a day, what could they do then with any of them? I’d be surprised if the number they deal with was that _low._ ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-suppose-one-way-to-fight-back-against-government-eavesdropping/660898/39 "2013-06-16T21:22:30Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The first dozen or so that tried this would get slapped _hard_ as an example to others, and it would die down damnquick. In order to protect us all, we must nip this in the bud. Clearly, we need to set BrainGlutton’s house on fire to teach him a lesson. I’ll text you with details. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-suppose-one-way-to-fight-back-against-government-eavesdropping/660898/40 "2013-06-16T21:28:46Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Ah, but if they got a thousand such cases a day, what could they do then with any of them? I imagine it involves going further into debt. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-suppose-one-way-to-fight-back-against-government-eavesdropping/660898.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-suppose-one-way-to-fight-back-against-government-eavesdropping/660898.md?page=3)