# I swear I just don't understand marketers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 12, 2006, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swear-i-just-dont-understand-marketers/376135 "2006-10-12T01:05:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swear-i-just-dont-understand-marketers/376135/21 "2006-10-12T15:07:56Z")
[QUOTE=Ethilrist] I didn’t see this mentioned above, but from the description, it sounds like the guy ends up looking like Jerry Garcia… [/QUOTE] :smack: D’oh! You’re probably right! I hadn’t made that connection, perhaps because I’m not a big Grateful Dead fan, but also because the guy in the ad is pretty skinny and Garcia was not, at the end. But I’ll bet that’s what they were going for, and I didn’t get it. Thanks, **Ethilrist**. ---
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swear-i-just-dont-understand-marketers/376135/22 "2006-10-12T15:15:01Z")
[QUOTE=The King of Soup] candy is pretty much always sold alphabetically by product name rather than segregated on the shelf by manufacturer or main ingredient [/QUOTE] Huh? Are you saying that Bazooka Joe bubble gum is always on the upper left shelves and Whoppers are on the lower right? I don’t belive that that is true in any of the stores I shop at. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swear-i-just-dont-understand-marketers/376135/23 "2006-10-12T15:29:28Z")
[QUOTE=commasense] There seems to be a long tradition of idiot spokesmen, especially for phone companies. Remember the Carrot Top ads, or the ones with David Arquette? How a blithering idiot is supposed to be a good representative for your company escpapes me, but maybe **TKOS** or some of the other (apparently professional) marketers here will explain why it’s a brilliant strategy, too. I guess it’s all part of the “make them remember the name, even if it’s by being annoying” philosophy. [/QUOTE] Carrot Top’s fans, such as they are, tend to be college-age young people, which also happens to be the age group that most frequently places collect calls. Hence, hiring him as a spokesman for a collect calling service makes a kind of sense. It doesn’t really matter much if the ads are grating: no one is going to think of the phone company as “cool” no matter who they get to do the ads, and if you’re in a pinch and need to make a collect call, you’re going to go with the service you remember, whether the spokeschimp is cool or not. "Wait a sec, how did that go? ‘C-A-L-L-A-T-T’ … " ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swear-i-just-dont-understand-marketers/376135/24 "2006-10-12T16:23:37Z")
> [@](#): > > Why do you ask? Have you lived in Columbia? Yes, from 8 to 17 years old. The major consequence has been that I now feel funny living on a street named for a tree or number rather than from someone’s literary oeuvre. “East 151st” pales beside “Ovenbird.” ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swear-i-just-dont-understand-marketers/376135/25 "2006-10-12T16:26:38Z")
The reason _I_ don’t understand marketers is that anymore, it looks like they’re mostly marketing to other marketers. There is a disconnect with the public; presumably, they’re just sheep with money, there to be snowed under and manipulated. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swear-i-just-dont-understand-marketers/376135/26 "2006-10-12T16:35:14Z")
[QUOTE=Beware of Doug] The reason _I_ don’t understand marketers is that anymore, it looks like they’re mostly marketing to other marketers. There is a disconnect with the public; presumably, they’re just sheep with money, there to be snowed under and manipulated. [/QUOTE] I don’t understand what you’re saying: marketers _are_ marketing to the public (and, yes, they’re just sheep with money, but the marketers know what makes the sheep spend their money). Knowing _why_ they’re doing what they do is for the marketers, but is irrelevant to making the ad work. And the ad _did_ work. We’re still talking about it. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swear-i-just-dont-understand-marketers/376135/27 "2006-10-12T20:00:44Z")
This thread reminds me to eat some Cherry Garcia before I go to work. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swear-i-just-dont-understand-marketers/376135/28 "2006-10-12T20:29:18Z")
As the head of marketing for my company, the reasoned posts by folks like **TKOS, RealityChuck, Nonsuch, msmith537 and others** are spot on. With different products you are attempting to accomplish different things. With commodities, such as ice cream, you are attempting to: 1. Differentiate yourself - i.e., get the consumer to believe you are NOT a commodity, either by providing a feature-based difference (e.g., Tartar Control Crest, when it first came out, did something other toothpastes didn’t do) or brand-based differentiation (i.e., we’re cooler, funnier, whatever…). Ben and Jerry’s clearly tries to use brand-based differentiation - we’re a green, people-oriented company that makes great ice cream…we’re like you. 2. Stay front of mind - per everyone else’s posts. The reason some ads are so irritating is for precisely that reason - as Oscar Wilde put it: “better to be spoken of poorly than not to be spoken about at all.” ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swear-i-just-dont-understand-marketers/376135/29 "2006-10-12T20:40:37Z")
I guess marketers hate me (rather, people like me) because if a commercial annoys me I will go out of my way not to purchase the product, service, etc. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swear-i-just-dont-understand-marketers/376135/30 "2006-10-12T20:48:10Z")
[QUOTE=SnakesCatLady] I guess marketers hate me (rather, people like me) because if a commercial annoys me I will go out of my way not to purchase the product, service, etc. [/QUOTE] Nope - not likely. It probably just means you weren’t in there target cohort. If there is a product/service/whatever that is more “front and center” in your thinking - say, skateboards for a 13-year-old kid, or diet food for someone concerned about their weight - it is very likely that you _will_ watch annoying commercials, simply because the topic is on your mind. Put it this way: if you are happy with your stove, you will dial out stove commercials. If you are considering buying a new stove - or at least are dreaming about an upgrade - you are much more likely to watch and get that brand name for that stove stuck in your head. Now, DVR/Tivo changes everything, because you can fast forward past commercials without them having a chance to lodge in your subconscious… ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swear-i-just-dont-understand-marketers/376135/31 "2006-10-12T20:49:28Z")
[QUOTE=WordMan] Nope - not likely. It probably just means you weren’t in there target cohort. [/QUOTE] \ THEIR target cohort… :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swear-i-just-dont-understand-marketers/376135/32 "2006-10-12T20:56:55Z")
I wonder how many people are so brand-loyal that they’ll see the B&J commercial for chocolate ice cream, go to the store and then decide against buying whatever _other_ brand/flavor has the best immediate appeal. A B&J commercial may get me thinking about ice cream, but I’ll make my decision based on what’s available and appealing at the time of sale. ---
**Author:** ![Big\_Norse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/big_norse/32/9954_2.png) [@Big\_Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Big_Norse)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swear-i-just-dont-understand-marketers/376135/33 "2006-10-12T21:40:23Z")
[QUOTE=commasense] A guy is talking to a friend about a good idea he has (to save energy, I think–I missed the first part). Let’s put all our houses on a hill, and that way we can just coast down to our jobs every day. He friend says, Yeah, but then we have to go up the hill to get home. The first guy just sits there with his mouth open, stymied. It’s an ad for the flavor called “Half Baked.” Now, that’s funny. I get it. So I guess the Cherry Garcia one is supposed to be funny, too. But it didn’t make _me_ laugh. [/QUOTE] There’s also one for “Phish Food” - two guys are in a rowboat surrounded by sharks, one of them says he’s going for a swim, the other guys says something along the lines of “You can’t swim out there!” and then hands him a life jacket as the guy is stepping out of the boat. It took me a second to get, but I thought it was clever. (I personally favor B&J’s “Karmalsutra,” so will probably not be purchasing any “Phish Food.”) ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swear-i-just-dont-understand-marketers/376135/34 "2006-10-12T21:46:45Z")
[QUOTE=RealityChuck] Not at all. Only a fool would expect any ad to make people drop everything and come out and buy (other than ads for a special sale price). The point of any ad is to make the audience _remember the product_. Maybe you don’t buy it for a year. Maybe you don’t buy it at all – but tell someone else who does. And the point of this wasn’t to make yoy buy Cherry Garcia – it was to make you buy Ben and Jerry’s Ice Cream. If you get any flavor at all, then the commercial works. Because, the idea is that, at some point, you will say to yourself, “I feel like some ice cream. Where should I go?” And one of the locations on that list is Ben and Jerry’s. [/QUOTE] It is only partially true that the point of marketing is to make you remember the product. First, let’s address the real point of marketing. The point of marketing - at least in a for-profit company - is to increase profit, by increasing sales. To do that, it is \*necessary \*to make you remember the product. \*Sometimes \*it is also _sufficient_. If you want to buy but can’t remember the product, marketing has failed. If you remember the product but won’t buy, marketing has failed. Take for instance Viagra in the early years. It had no competiters and people knew pretty much why they would want it. Or Rogain. Remembering the product was both _necessary and sufficient_ for their marketers. But if your adverts make people remember the product in a negative fashion say, in the manner of the raised-by-wolves commercial for Quiznos, your marketing has failed. There is a reason their ad agency was fired. Their sales fell. Remembering the product was not _sufficient_. Now look at candy bars. There are hundreds of them. You remember most of them. The ads must try to find something to make you buy that specific brand. Three Musketeers touts that they satisfy hunger while being light and fluffy. Snickers says _packed with peanuts_. Both must work because they have been kept for years. Both are probably remembered by you, but you will only buy Snickers if _packed with peanuts_ is important to you. Sometimes remembering the product is the point of one advert, because another in the series will address trying to get you to buy. This advert fulfilled the \*necessary \*part. Will it be _sufficient_? The only way to know is to look at the sales numbers. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swear-i-just-dont-understand-marketers/376135/35 "2006-10-13T13:12:45Z")
**Khadaji** - you are basically explaining the difference between generating: _Primary Demand_ - getting consumers interested in that category. If you are the only (e.g., Viagra) or majority (e.g., say, Windows) player in a category, generating primary demand is the right way to go. It gets dicey when you have the major share, but your share is still not the majority. and _Secondary Demand_ - getting consumers interested in your produce in particular. Again, that depends on whether the basic nature of the produce is premium vs. commodity and how much you are willing to spend on marketing to generate perceived brand attributes. If you can get folks to equate Marlboro = Rugged even though the basic product is a commodity, then you as the manufacturer should do so because that brand-attribute based differentiation gives you an angle to generate secondary demand… Marketing is one of those things that most folks think they can do but is far more complex than it appears. Like Strategic Planning or facilitating a Board of Directors meeting - I run into so many folks who assume they can whip out a Strategic Plan - it’s just a vision, some goals and an initiative or two, right? Not even close, if you are doing it correctly. With Marketing, if it is done correctly requires a ton of up front planning to understand who you are trying to target, profile what that target population is like, how to reach them, etc. The problem with many ads we are exposed to is: many companies don’t take this disciplined approach to marketing and screw it up; or they take a structured approach but executed the ad poorly… There is a LOT of art to the science, but there is a lot of science. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swear-i-just-dont-understand-marketers/376135.md?page=1)