# I swiftly herewith consign to the pit, the ignorant clowns who misconstrue "its" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 11, 2012, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871 "2012-07-11T05:44:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/281 "2012-07-15T19:25:33Z")
> [@greenslime1951](#): > > You internet kiddies don’t sound very convincing when you say that English skills are unimportant. Nice straw man you’ve knocked over there. Feels good? ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/282 "2012-07-15T19:31:45Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Somebody is butthurt. > > BTW academically back in the day (before computers and way before the net) I was a top one percenter when it came to spelling and grammar. Did your sudden, uncaring attitude and ad hominem attacks coincide with a stroke? ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/283 "2012-07-15T19:52:04Z")
> [@greenslime1951](#): > > You internet kiddies don’t sound very convincing when you say that English skills are unimportant. I don’t think anyone here has said that, only that people who place as much importance on it as you apparently do are gigantic tools who don’t know half as much as they think they do. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/284 "2012-07-15T19:54:23Z")
We’re not the ones afflicted with fits of apoplexy over the -ly suffix. English was a subject I excelled in, by the way. As for beating up a smart kid every day, well, I was never able to catch myself so I had to leave myself unmolested. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/285 "2012-07-15T19:58:10Z")
I wouldn’t dignify his infantile flailing by trying to defend my knowledge of English via grades or degree or career. That’s just playing into his game. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/286 "2012-07-15T20:10:39Z")
Meh, he brought Chutes and Ladders to a Canasta fight. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/287 "2012-07-15T20:31:34Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > We’re not the ones afflicted with fits of apoplexy over the -ly suffix. Useful distinctions in meaning can be lost when the language loses its distinctions in grammar. Regarding adverbs losing their “ly” endings, for example, recall the kerfluffle over the grammar in Apple’s “Think different” ad campaign. There is, of course, nothing wrong with it, grammatically or otherwise, despite all the Miss Grundys of the world condemning it. But aside from that, there is a distinct, if suble, difference in meaning between “think different” and “think differently.” Across the board, the language is made poorer when such differences are lost, which would have been the case had adverbs never ended in “ly”. Indeed, the ad campaign, which played upon the difference, could not have existed had this been the case. I’m not extolling the virtues of those ads. I’m using them as an example of English losing distinctions in meaning when unthinking fashion takes on a life of its own. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/288 "2012-07-15T20:33:04Z")
> [@greenslime1951](#): > > And by the way, kiddies: if you can’t see the long-term damage that is done to society when people can’t (or won’t) communicate clearly and effectively with one another, then you’re part of the problem. Proper English _is_ important. Following rules _is_ important. As someone who has done a lot of professional proofreading for publication I’d just like to point out that there’s nothing new to this kind of error in writing, and I can assure you that the sky isn’t falling. By starting this thread you chose to place yourself in a finger-pointing position about a common, long-standing, and relatively minor issue with everyday writing, as though your great understanding of punctuation (and yes, that’s all it is, a question of punctuation) would serve to enlighten those who are destroying the very core of communication in English. With further bloviating you revealed your own ignorance of language, and instead of getting off your high pony you just blew the whole thing way out of proportion. Personally I would say that this isn’t even a question of prescriptivism vs. descriptivism (which I believe pertains more to speech than writing, and that’s another issue, hashed out before in other threads, so _let’s leave that alone_), but you should know better that that’s _ **always** _ going to come up here in just about any thread about perceived “rules” in language. By starting this in the pit you _ **guaranteed** _ that it wasn’t going to turn out to be the back-slapping praise of your fine knowledge of punctuation that you were looking for. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/289 "2012-07-15T20:34:25Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > Useful distinctions in meaning can be lost when the language loses its distinctions in grammar. > > Regarding adverbs losing their “ly” endings, for example, recall the kerfluffle over the grammar in Apple’s “Think different” ad campaign. > > There is, of course, nothing wrong with it, grammatically or otherwise, despite all the Miss Grundys of the world condemning it. > > But aside from that, there is a distinct, if suble, difference in meaning between “think different” and “think differently.” Across the board, the language is made poorer when such differences are lost, which would have been the case had adverbs never ended in “ly”. Indeed, the ad campaign, which played upon the difference, could not have existed had this been the case. > > I’m not extolling the virtues of those ads. I’m using them as an example of English losing distinctions in meaning when unthinking fashion takes on a life of its own. Oh, subtly distinct near-synonyms are a good thing? Great, it’s lovely how language keeps churning out more of them: “reveal” vs. “revelation”, “cite” vs. “citation”, “service” vs. “serve”… ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/290 "2012-07-15T20:36:24Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > Did your sudden, uncaring attitude and ad hominem attacks coincide with a stroke? No, If you must know…three beers, a hot fucking Sunday mowing the now overgrown grass and a bitchy assed SO. Its like the perfect storm 🙂 And when, BTW, is butthurt an ad hominem? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/291 "2012-07-15T20:39:37Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > Useful distinctions in meaning can be lost when the language loses its distinctions in grammar. If they’re truly useful, they won’t be lost. People don’t purposefully hobble themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/292 "2012-07-15T20:53:56Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > Useful distinctions in meaning can be lost when the language loses its distinctions in grammar. > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > If they’re truly useful, they won’t be lost. People don’t purposefully hobble themselves. Beat me to it. Language is self-correcting. If “think different” has a significantly different meaning from “think differently,” then English speakers are going to keep making that distinction, because when someone tries to be ‘lazy’ and leave off the -ly, it will cause confusion. If there is no meaningful difference, then nothing is lost. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/293 "2012-07-15T20:55:05Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > By starting this in the pit you _ **guaranteed** _ that it wasn’t going to turn out to be the back-slapping praise of your fine knowledge of punctuation that you were looking for. Well, to be fair though, if his writing was near perfect and he had assumed a pretty good intellectual position he might have had a fighting chance. Neither of those? Shit yeah it was piranha week on the Discovery Channel fur sure. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/294 "2012-07-15T21:06:20Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Beat me to it. > > Language is self-correcting. If “think different” has a significantly different meaning from “think differently,” then English speakers are going to keep making that distinction, because when someone tries to be ‘lazy’ and leave off the -ly, it will cause confusion. If there is no meaningful difference, then nothing is lost. Of course, people might gradually switch to communicating the same connotational difference by different means. It’s not that the ability to express the distinction is ever lost; it’s just that the manner of expressing it may shift. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/295 "2012-07-15T21:09:02Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > Oh, subtly distinct near-synonyms are a good thing? This from a user whose name is Indistinguishable. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/296 "2012-07-15T21:11:56Z")
It has been awful for vanity searching… I had no idea that word comes up so often. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/297 "2012-07-15T21:19:34Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > It has been awful for vanity searching… Sudden observation (which I’ve perhaps had and forgotten before): written language fails to distinguish between “it’s” = “it is” and “it’s” = “it has”. But people usually get by… ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/298 "2012-07-15T21:57:58Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > It’s not that the ability to express the distinction is ever lost; it’s just that the manner of expressing it may shift. One language dilution that makes me sad is the use of “literally” to mean “figuratively”. As in “the guy was literally eight feet tall”. I believe that some dictionaries now have it as an accepted usage. It bothers me because I don’t know of a word --or even a short phrase-- that conveys the meaning “literally” with similar efficiency. “Actually” underwent a similar dilution and won’t suffice. I have a mental image of the people of who use literally to mean figuratively and it’s not a flattering image. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/299 "2012-07-15T22:00:09Z")
I can’t believe THIS thread of all things has gone on for 300 posts. Is \*someone wrong on the internet \*again? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/300 "2012-07-15T22:04:31Z")
We do have a word that means that. Here, let me tell you it: literally. It certainly isn’t the first word to hold two contradictory meanings and it won’t be the last. Check out Indistinguishable’s post 205 for a wicked demolishing of the idea that what’s happening to literally is unusual or remarkable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871.md?page=16)