# I swiftly herewith consign to the pit, the ignorant clowns who misconstrue "its" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 11, 2012, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871 "2012-07-11T05:44:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/81 "2012-07-12T04:53:48Z")
> [@greenslime1951](#): > > Where is poor spelling leading us? You’re looking at the question backwards. Poor spelling is a _symptom_. It is reflective of the degradation of educational values in this country. I feel compelled to point out that attitudes such as yours, i.e., that good spelling, grammar, and punctuation don’t really matter–hasten that degradation. > > . It all depends. Is the word actually misspelled or is it the language in evolution? For example, I like spellings such as “tho” and even “nite”, etc. English was on it’s way to regularizing pluralization, getting rid of silliness like “geese” and “mice” (which may be on it way out again) when the language-nazis stepped in and killed the evolution. Now I hear “Octopi” by the same idiots that complain about apostrophes. Apostrophes should be used only when needed for clarity, then ignored the rest of the time. Many of the “rules” that are often complained about on these boards are merely pedantic pettifogging by anal-retentive “experts” that want to appear superior by demanding others follow “rules” that are no such thing. ---
**Author:** ![greenslime1951](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9bcb4/32.png) [@greenslime1951](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenslime1951)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/82 "2012-07-12T04:56:20Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > Because people love to get self-righteous about the language errors they can figure out, but of course, conveniently overlook the ones they make themselves. That, forgive me, is crap. We _all_ make grammatical mistakes. The issue is whether we care that we’ve made them. It’s not a matter of self-righteousness; it’s a matter of caring about accuracy. I daresay there is some discipline/endeavor hobby of your own where you similarly care about things being just so–a certain way. ---
**Author:** ![greenslime1951](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9bcb4/32.png) [@greenslime1951](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenslime1951)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/83 "2012-07-12T05:00:52Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It all depends. Is the word actually misspelled or is it the language in evolution? For example, I like spellings such as “tho” and even “nite”, etc. > > English was on it’s way to regularizing pluralization, getting rid of silliness like “geese” and “mice” (which may be on it way out again) when the language-nazis stepped in and killed the evolution. Now I hear “Octopi” by the same idiots that complain about apostrophes. Apostrophes should be used only when needed for clarity, then ignored the rest of the time. > > Many of the “rules” that are often complained about on these boards are merely pedantic pettifogging by anal-retentive “experts” that want to appear superior by demanding others follow “rules” that are no such thing. You grossly misunderstand the motivation for advocating for proper language usage. And just because _you_ don’t care about language doesn’t make those who do “anal-retentive.” You also grossly misunderstand how common usage comes about and how it evolves. There are no “language-nazis,” as you put it, only the slowly evolving consensus of the community of users of a particular language. What is nongrammatical today may become grammatical through common usage, and even vice versa. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/84 "2012-07-12T05:12:25Z")
> [@greenslime1951](#): > > I should also point out that the more educated you become about etymology, morphology, and syntax, the less arbitrary those rules seem. Yet those who are _most_ educated about etymology, morphology, and syntax (i.e., professional linguists) are also those who are least sympathetic to this kind of hand-wringing. What does that say? ---
**Author:** ![greenslime1951](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9bcb4/32.png) [@greenslime1951](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenslime1951)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/85 "2012-07-12T07:05:46Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > Yet those who are _most_ educated about etymology, morphology, and syntax (i.e., professional linguists) are also those who are least sympathetic to this kind of hand-wringing. What does that say? Cite! Cite! Cite! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/86 "2012-07-12T07:32:38Z")
> [@greenslime1951](#): > > and when is “it” ever plural? I lost count of the its in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/87 "2012-07-12T08:31:16Z")
When writing a text message I’ll almost never bother to use “it is” or “it’s”. So I might write “its on fri”. Does that infuriate the OP as much? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/88 "2012-07-12T13:14:35Z")
> [@greenslime1951](#): > > You grossly misunderstand the motivation for advocating for proper language usage. And just because _you_ don’t care about language doesn’t make those who do “anal-retentive.” > > You also grossly misunderstand how common usage comes about and how it evolves. There are no “language-nazis,” as you put it, only the slowly evolving consensus of the community of users of a particular language. What is nongrammatical today may become grammatical through common usage, and even vice versa. But your post makes it clear i got the "pedantic pettifogging by anal-retentive “experts” that _want to appear superior"_ right. I got the motivation- you want to appear superior, everyone who doesnt use language the way _you_ have decided it is supposed to be used is guilty of “gross misunderstanding”. I understand perfectly, dude. Of course language is supposed to evolve thru usage. But “language nazis” try to stop every change, mostly by saying “that is against the rules” (there are no “rules” for the English language, unlike in France) while looking down their nose at the offender. I do care about the language. I want it to be allowed to evolve naturally. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/89 "2012-07-12T13:39:27Z")
> [@greenslime1951](#): > > when is “it” ever plural? When referring to a pile of unsold Segways, maybe. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/90 "2012-07-12T13:45:53Z")
> [@greenslime1951](#): > > Cite! Cite! Cite! 😃 Oh, that reminds me of some more: Cite is a verb. Citation is the noun. Also, service is a noun, not a verb, except perhaps when referring to cars or prostitution. Reveal is a verb, despite what you may hear on reality TV. The noun to describe the act is revelation. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/91 "2012-07-12T13:47:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > But your post makes it clear i got the "pedantic pettifogging by anal-retentive “experts” that _want to appear superior"_ right. I got the motivation- you want to appear superior, everyone who doesnt use language the way _you_ have decided it is supposed to be used is guilty of “gross misunderstanding”. I understand perfectly, dude. > > Of course language is supposed to evolve thru usage. But “language nazis” try to stop every change, mostly by saying “that is against the rules” (there are no “rules” for the English language, unlike in France) while looking down their nose at the offender. > > I do care about the language. I want it to be allowed to evolve naturally. It’s a balancing act. We must let it evolve, but not go completely out of control or else we won’t be able to understand each other. It’s like raising a child. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/92 "2012-07-12T13:50:11Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I stopped caring hugely about grammar when I realized that in some situations grammatical errors such as taco’s can actually reduce ambiguity (e.g. “tacos”, might leave the reader wondering momentarily what a takoss is (if tacos wasn’t such a common word)). That’s why I avoid all confusion by ordering two burritos supreme. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/93 "2012-07-12T14:43:01Z")
> [@greenslime1951](#): > > God, I can’t believe I let him get away with that. Glad to be of service. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/94 "2012-07-12T15:54:42Z")
> [@lance strongarm](#): > > It’s a balancing act. A balancing act requiring no trammels. Undue burdens will not be preserved in language, whether said burdens are placed on the recipient or the transmitter. > [@greenslime1951](#): > > er…unique grammar Ever read a book on [linguistics](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American_Vernacular_English)? > [@greenslime1951](#): > > I freely admit that I might very soon be one of a very few who do care about this, and that my preference for properly spelled words and properly constructed and punctuated sentences might be seen as quaint or even silly. There was a time when quaint meant cunning, you know. > [@greenslime1951](#): > > I assume he meant… Nah, he probably meant the subjunctive. If I weren’t mistaken, that is. Few USians get it right. Lynne Truss is a reactionary prescriptivist. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/95 "2012-07-12T16:39:39Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > A balancing act requiring no trammels. Undue burdens will not be preserved in language, whether said burdens are placed on the recipient or the transmitter. Your English isn’t very clear to me. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/96 "2012-07-12T16:44:20Z")
> [@ASanders](#): > > And loose and lose!! I don’t get that one at all, ever. The pronunciation is different, the meaning is different, ARGH. This was the first one that confirmed me as an old geezer. The items in this thread would bug me some but lose/loose sends me up the wall. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/97 "2012-07-12T16:44:24Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Your English isn’t very clear to me. **gamerunknown** is saying it doesn’t take any special effort to perform this balancing act, and in particular, there’s no need to explicitly outlaw certain usages. People will figure it out on their own; no one naturally adopts a manner of speech which is cumbersome (either on the speaking or the listening end), at least not for very long. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/98 "2012-07-12T16:46:46Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Oh, that reminds me of some more: > > Cite is a verb. Citation is the noun. > > Also, service is a noun, not a verb, except perhaps when referring to cars or prostitution. > > Reveal is a verb, despite what you may hear on reality TV. The noun to describe the act is revelation. In every single one of these, you are wrong, because words may have multiple “parts of speech”, and, indeed, it is extraordinarily common for a word originating as one “part of speech” to develop a sympathetic sense as another. It is also common for the same word to have multiple variants in a particular part of speech, often with different connotations. Thus, “cite” and “citation” can both be nouns, “service” and “serve” can both be verbs, and “reveal” and “revelation” can both be nouns. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/99 "2012-07-12T16:53:10Z")
> [@greenslime1951](#): > > That, forgive me, is crap. We _all_ make grammatical mistakes. The issue is whether we care that we’ve made them. It’s not a matter of self-righteousness; it’s a matter of caring about accuracy. I daresay there is some discipline/endeavor hobby of your own where you similarly care about things being just so–a certain way. Yes there is for me. Unfornately for all you anal retentive types out there my posts here on this board are not one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871/100 "2012-07-12T16:59:03Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > Lynne Truss is a reactionary prescriptivist. I think I’ve brought this book up before but I really think it’s worthwhile to read [The Fight For English: How Language Pundits Ate, Shot and Left](http://www.amazon.com/The-Fight-English-Language-Pundits/dp/019920764X) as an after dinner mint to Truss and other language mavens. Looking at the prices on amazon though, you may want to check it out of the library, geeze. It’s good but I don’t know if it’s 40 bucks good. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-swiftly-herewith-consign-to-the-pit-the-ignorant-clowns-who-misconstrue-its/627871.md?page=6)